Me ha parecido bastante interesante. Copiado y pegado del MJNI:
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Can't say it ain't interesting, what's going on in California. We welcome Diane Dimond. She's in Santa Maria, executive investigative editor of Court TV. She's been covering Michael Jackson for 12 years. In Atlanta is Nancy Grace, the host of "NANCY GRACE" on CNN HEADLINE NEWS. She's an anchor on Court TV, former prosecutor, and author of an upcoming book, "Objection." In Santa Maria is Ted Rowlands, the CNN correspondent covering the trial. In San Francisco is Michael Cardoza, the defense attorney, former Alameda County prosecutor. He's attended some of the sessions. And in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida tonight is Raymone Bain, Michael Jackson's spokesperson.
All right, Ted Rowlands, what happened today?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we heard from the alleged victim's stepfather today. And it seems as though this is just a prelude to the alleged victim's mother, who we assume is coming in the next few days if some issues can be ironed out.
Today on the stand, the stepfather for the prosecution helped with their conspiracy charges against Jackson, by saying that during the time the prosecutors say the family was being held against their will at Neverland, he received phone calls from the accuser's mother. And he said that she was upset during those phone calls and agitated. And he was brought on basically to help out with this theory, that this family was being held against their will.
This is a charge, obviously, Michael Jackson denies.
On cross-examination, Jackson's lawyer, Thomas Mesereau, concentrated on the fact that this father seemed to be -- this is what the defense is trying to portray -- that this father was looking for money, like a lot of other witnesses, because he negotiated with a tabloid, a British tabloid. He was never paid anything, but he did negotiate to sell his family's story with the tabloid.
And then when Michael Jackson went to him, to this family to help with this rebuttal video after the Bashir documentary aired, this father, stepfather, said, well, wait a minute, what's in it for the family? And he negotiated a deal or tried to with the Jackson camp. At one point, he said that they offered to pay for the kid's college education and a new house, but he said he turned it down. So Thomas Mesereau obviously concentrated on that. We are expecting the mother to testify possibly tomorrow.
KING: Cynthia, there were reports at ABC saying that she may not testify? Will she testify?
CYNTHIA MCFADDEN, ABC NEWS: My colleague, Jim Avila, this morning, Larry, reported on "Good Morning America" that there were problems with her testimony. I mean, if you ask me whether I bet they worked those problems out, I think that most of us would say they're probably going to work those out.
KING: Problems like?
MCFADDEN: Well, there are allegations that she, in fact, committed welfare fraud in a previous time. And the defense...
KING: Will bring that up. MCFADDEN: Wants to question her about that. Now, Mr. Sneddon has put a motion in front of the judge saying let's restrain the defense from asking those questions. The judge is going to rule on that tomorrow.
KING: You're entitled to ask the witness questions, aren't you?
MCFADDEN: Well, only questions that are relevant.
KING: Diane, of course we're all in a guessing game, since only 12 people are going to decide this. So in your own opinion, how is this trial going?
DIANE DIMOND, COURT TV: Well, I think it's going the state's way right now, but that's because we're in the state's case. People who try to make a prediction now -- we really haven't heard Tom Mesereau's case yet. He's got an awful lot of celebrities on the list. He's got an awful lot of people who have been very close to Michael Jackson for a lot of years. And they could be just as compelling as this part of the case. I really think it's way too early. I'm looking at the end of June at least until this case is over.
KING: Nancy Grace, is this a tough prognostication?
NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": Well, I think that it's going to be tough on both sides, Larry. And I also think that it's too soon to call the case. It is all going to boil down to a credibility contest, and this mother was a lynchpin for the state.
Now, here's the kicker. In California, if you're going to try to impeach someone's credibility, she does not have a conviction for welfare fraud. So Mesereau would have to go on a fishing expedition with questions in themselves that would be irrelevant. So it's going to be very difficult for Mesereau to do this without a conviction on the mother.
KING: Michael Cardoza, is the prosecution, in your opinion, doing a good job to this point?
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think they're doing a very good job to this point. I'll tell you what, you compare it to the Peterson case, these district attorneys are professional, they're well prepared, and they're putting on the case as any good professional prosecutor would do.
I know Sneddon has taken a lot of tough cases to trial. I was a DA in Los Angeles for two years. And I had a friend out there who moved up to Santa Maria, and he's told me a lot of cases that Sneddon takes to trial are very difficult cases, but he gets convictions. Here's another one, and he may well get a conviction in this one.
KING: Raymone Bain, as spokesperson for Michael, are you very concerned?
RAYMONE BAIN, MICHAEL JACKSON SPOKESPERSON: Larry, I can't say that we're very concerned. In fact, I spoke to Michael just before coming on. He sends his regards. I asked him just how he was doing. He's mentally and spiritually very strong. Physically, he's a bit tired now, because of the rigors of getting up in the morning. But he feels that things are going very, very well. Tom Mesereau is doing an excellent job. There's been a string of witnesses coming in and out, who lack a lot of credibility. There are also concerns on our end, Larry, that we kind of hope that many of the pundits and journalists who are out here reporting be a little bit more fair and balanced.
I mean, we have all of these salacious headlines, like Mrs. Jackson not being able to sit in court because of the lurid details, when she only went to the bathroom and because the jury had been seated she couldn't get back in court.
A lot of that wears on you, because when you hear it and you're sitting there, and you wonder, well, am I in the same courtroom as some of these journalists who are reporting this? So there are a couple of things that you know, we wish would get better. But for the most part, Michael is doing OK. He's tremendously pleased with Tom Mesereau and his defense team right now.
KING: Cynthia, does that optimism surprise you?
MCFADDEN: No, I think it's appropriate. I mean, this is a midpoint. But Larry, I have to say -- and I'd be interested to know if other panelists know anything other than this. I've never covered a case, I'm not familiar with any case where allegations of past bad acts have been introduced against a defendant, and the defendant has been able to prevail in a case of child sex molestation. The stakes have changed...
KING: You know of no history where...
MCFADDEN: Well, I'm sure there's a case somewhere, and maybe we'll get a call from a viewer who knows about it. But I have to tell you, it changes the playing field in the courtroom significantly. When you're not just defending this one case, suddenly there all are these other allegations out there.
KING: And again, you're guessing for 12 people, though.
MCFADDEN: It's tough.
KING: They may look at it completely differently than -- but...
MCFADDEN: We know it's tougher. This much we do know, it's tougher. Now, whether or not it's impossible, we don't know. But it's much tougher.
KING: We'll get the other panelists' opinion right after this break. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: The mother said Michael Jackson convinced her to allow her son to share his bed on a trip to Las Vegas, after she said Jackson cried and asked her, quote, "don't you trust me, we're family."
The woman said Jackson ended up sleeping at her house, spending more than 30 nights. Each time she said Jackson slept with her son in his room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Let's go around the horn. Ted Rowlands, do you agree with Cynthia's analysis, that it's very hard with these prior acts coming in, for the defense to prevail?
ROWLANDS: Oh, yeah. I think it's night and day, Larry. Because what is happening, as Cynthia pointed out, Thomas Mesereau is now defending allegations from six different alleged accusers. And they're coming from all sides. You have a cook, you have a maid, you have a security guard, all claiming that they saw Michael Jackson doing this, that and the other thing to all of these different children. And Mesereau has been very effective at attacking each one of these witnesses, and breaking down their credibility on a case by case basis. But when you have an avalanche of this coming at you, it is awfully difficult to defend.
KING: Diane, does it begin to be, looks like a duck, acts like a duck, walks like duck, might be a duck? Diane, do you hear me?
DIMOND: Oh, I hear you, Larry. The sound did drop out. Yes, you know, Ted's absolutely right. Not only has his jury heard from this now 15-year-old survivor of cancer, they also heard from the maid's son, 24-years-old, a youth pastor, a real good looking kid. In fact, the two kind of look alike. Then they heard from the mother of the 1993 accuser. And there's a thread going on here, a pattern of behavior, which is why this 1108 -- it's called 1108 evidence -- is allowed in, to show a pattern of behavior. And as all your panelists are cautioning, it's up to the jury to decide if they believe this thread. But there's an awful lot of similarities.
KING: Now, Nancy, if you were the defense -- how is a defense attorney overcome this kind of thing?
GRACE: Now, Larry, you know you're asking the wrong person.
KING: No, come on. I'll tell you why, it's always good to know what the other side will do, right? Well, what would you do?
GRACE: In this case Mesereau has done it all right. He tried to keep out the similar transactions. He's trying to shred the credibility of each of the witnesses they are putting up. But back to Cynthia's original claim that it's so much harder, she's right, it is harder. But this is not unusual, Larry. In many, many child molestations you dig and you don't have to dig deep, you will find other allegations in the past. And also this is not an ambush. They knew this was coming. These are cases that Michael Jackson settled for millions of dollars. He knew this would happen. I think his biggest problem regarding the similar transactions or past bad acts, is that 24-year-old young man who was a religious youth worker and claims molestation in the past. That kid -- I call him a kid, he's 24-years-old now. But that kid was barely touched. Couldn't lay a glove on him on cross-exam. And if they should be careful of any of the witnesses, it's him.
KING: Michael Cardoza?
CARDOZA: Yes.
KING: Is we at a point where he's almost going to have to take the stand?
CARDOZA: Michael Jackson -- I think we are, Larry. Mesereau already promised he's going to take the stand, so I don't think he can go back on that promise or it's going to be handed to him by the jury when they go back and deliberate. Even though they're not supposed to talk about it, you know it's going to be in their mind. And everybody's really right about these past incidents in Michael Jackson's life. And that's why it's really the art of the defense. Mesereau's doing a wonderful job here. He's certainly up to this task. And what he has to do is push all these prior incidents aside, and somehow address those and maybe admit perhaps they didn't happen. But we're not trying that case. We're trying this particular case.
And remember what happened in this case. The victim in this case loved Michael Jackson up until the Bashir video. The family loved Jackson up until then. And then right after the Bashir video, when Jackson reaches out to them, and says, please help me here, I want to make a rebuttal video, help me. What do they say? What are you going to give us? How much money? They're not able to get money. So what do they do, and this is what the defense will argue, they go to the defense attorney or plaintiff's attorney Feldman, and they say, he molested our child, get us a quick $20 million. That will be the defense in the case. And that's what Mesereau has to do here, is focus the jury on this case and not let the D.A. bolster it with all these other incidents.
KING: Raymone, do you believe he'll take the stand?
BAIN: I think he'll do whatever his team tells him to, Larry. I think that...
KING: Does he want to?
BAIN: Well, the times that I have spoken to him, he has indicated to me that he will follow the lead of his defense team. He feels that he is innocent here. He feels that at the end of the day he will be vindicated of false charges. And I think, Larry, what Michael will do is listen to what Tom Mesereau, Brian Oxmonfeger (ph), Susan Yu will advise. And if they tell him he should take the stand, then he will take the stand. Because he's not running from anything. Michael Jackson doesn't feel like he has anything to hide. He is going to be very honest. And frankly, I don't think he'll be worried about taking the stand, because all he can do is tell the truth.
And I think that at the end of the day, that's what matters here in this case. And we haven't been seeing a lot of that. And I'm sure that some of our pundits here tonight will let you know that throughout the last several weeks, there is a big credibility issue here.
KING: On all these people? All these people have a credibility problem?
BAIN: Yes, indeed. And I think that what a lot of the people in America don't know is, everybody who has been in there owes Michael Jackson money, Larry. Michael Jackson has a judgment against him. That's true.
GRACE: That's just not true.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: One at a time.
BAIN: They owe him $1.6. million.
DIMOND: And the more witnesses that have come forward...
BAIN: They owe him $1.6 million.
DIMOND: The more the witnesses come forward, the more the defense has to go down to everybody else's line except Michael Jackson. There were people on the stand, Larry, that lost a lawsuit to Michael Jackson. And now they owe him $1.6 or .7 million. That was in 1996.
BAIN: Larry, everybody that's coming into court is on the 1108 motion.
DIMOND: Not everyone owes Michael Jackson money. You can not say that.
KING: I've got to get a break guys. Hold up. Let me get a break and let Cynthia (UNINTELLIGIBLE) let the other panel members get in too. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: OK, Cynthia, where do you stand on this? Does he have to take the stand?
MCFADDEN: Well, you know, after what we've seen in the last few days, Larry. I think that the defense which promised originally with the sort of a wink and a nod that Mr. Jackson was going to testify in opening statements to the jury...
KING: Raymone says, he'll do whatever they tell him.
MCFADDEN: I suspect that the defense is leaning at this point towards putting him on the stand, but it's a long way before the defense has to make that decision. And I suspect that if he does testify, everything else goes out the window. It then becomes does the jury believe him or not.
KING: Nancy, do you agree with that. If he testifies, it comes down to a matter of belief?
GRACE: It always happens that way, Larry. Once the defendant takes the stand, the whole question in the jury's mind is, was he telling the truth or not? Do we like him or not? Do we believe him or not? It shifts everything once the defendant takes the stand. And I would like to point out that just because Tom Mesereau said it in opening statements does not make it so. Four things already he promised in openings have been disproved by state's witnesses. I take great issue with saying that everybody that has testified for the state owes Jackson money. That is not true.
BAIN: That's not what I said. I said the majority of them that are coming into court under the 1108 motion owes Michael Jackson money. That's what I said.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know what?
BAIN: That is true.
GRACE: It's just not true. It's just not true.
BAIN: I also want to point out...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: One at a time.
GRACE: ... regarding whether he'll take the stand. Here is the toss of the coin. Jackson is incredibly charismatic, but he'll have to live down the Bashir documentary. And think about it, Larry, the man came to court in his pajamas.
BAIN: It's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) hospital.
GRACE: He's not going to take the stand. He can't take the stand.
BAIN: And there was a bench warrant issued for his arrest.
KING: All right, one at a time. Michael.
CARDOZA: Larry, I can just imagine right now that in making this decision -- and one thing that Nancy's right about is they don't have to make up their mind whether they're going to put him on right now or not. Mesereau did indicate they were going to, which I think was a mistake, but notwithstanding that, they've got to be running through many mock cross-examinations with him.
And I'll tell you, if I were defending him, I would be on the edge of my chair the entire time Jackson was on that witness stand. I can just imagine Sneddon is going to go after him. It's going to be unbelievable. He'll keep him on there for days. And we all know Jackson is spoiled. So when he gets up there, if he doesn't like something, he doesn't get to walk off that witness stand.
GRACE: He'll never make it, Michael.
CARDOZA: I don't think...
GRACE: They'll never let him (ph).
CARDOZA: I agree with you. I don't think he'll make it either. And that's why I'm saying I'd be on the edge of the chair.
BAIN: Well, I disagree with all of you. Because if Michael Jackson has to take the stand -- Michael Jackson has been in this business for 41 years. He's no idiot. He's very articulate. He's very brilliant. He's very bright. And I think maybe you all will be surprised, because I don't know what impression -- well, yes, I do...
GRACE: Well, I agree...
(CROSSTALK)
BAIN: I do know what impression a few of you have of Michael. But I think that if Michael Jackson, the decision is for Michael Jackson to take the stand, I think you will all be surprised. I don't think -- I think like any other defense witness, Larry, OK, it will be give-and-take between the prosecutor and the defendant, but Michael Jackson is no slouch. And I think that at the end of the day, they're going to be very surprised at Michael Jackson.
KING: Let me get a break. When we come back, we've got more to come. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Let's get one call to get into this. Port Richey, Florida, hello.
CALLER: Yeah, hi, good evening, Larry. This is for anyone to ask -- answer. With all these allegations against Mr. Jackson, will this jeopardize the custody of his children being with him?
KING: Diane, do you know?
DIMOND: Well, it could. Very obviously, there's a custody case going down in Los Angeles now because his ex-wife, Debby Row, apparently wants his two oldest children back. I can't think that this helps in any way, especially if he is, in fact, convicted.
KING: Michael?
CARDOZA: Well, if he's convicted, he's going to go to state prison. He'll be there for 20 plus years. Of course, it is going to affect the custody of the children, and they probably will be given back to Debby Row, the mother.
KING: Nancy, is prison automatic in a pedophile case?
GRACE: Well, a lot of times, no, but in this case, if he's convicted, he's going to jail. And the issue, Larry, as to whether he will take the stand, I can tell you right now, Jackson can never hold up. His spokesperson is correct. He's articulate, he's talented, he's brilliant in the music world. But his behavior and demeanor in court, he's not even on the stand yet. He would be destroyed on cross, Larry.
KING: As a popular person, Cynthia, don't you think most people want these charges to not be true? He's entertained so many millions for so many people for so many years, don't you think the gut feeling is I hope this is all going away?
MCFADDEN: Nobody could want this to be true. I mean, if these allegations are true...
KING: You'd have to be sadistic to want them to be true.
MCFADDEN: It's horrific. But you know, I think your point is that I think maybe some of the jurors are sort of rooting for him secretly.
KING: It might well happen, right?
MCFADDEN: It might well happen, and I think that's a fair point. I mean, you know, you hate to think that Michael Jackson may have in fact committed these crimes.
KING: Ted, is this jury very attentive?
ROWLANDS: Oh, clearly, yeah. They are following along very attentively. And they're taking notes most of the time. I think this is a jury that is very well aware of what they are charged with, and that is to make a very difficult decision at the end of the day, and they are concentrating and doing a very good job of staying awake.
The schedule is very difficult, because there are no long breaks, but they're doing a very good job, it looks like, from my vantage point.
KING: Raymone, do you have faith in the system? Do you think the jury will out?
BAIN: Oh, I do have faith in the system. And I think Michael does as well, and I know Tom Mesereau and his defense team do, Larry. And we just think that at the end of the day -- I keep saying that -- we'll prevail, because I do know that Michael Jackson is innocent. And I can say this. I am under the gag order. But the judge has allowed Michael Jackson to say that he is innocent. So therefore, I'm not violating any gag orders by saying that. And the judge has given him permission to do so.
KING: But no, we don't know anything, Raymone. You weren't there, I wasn't there.
BAIN: No.
KING: We don't -- you think you know, you don't know.
BAIN: I don't know. But I do believe when Michael Jackson says he is innocent, he is, Larry. And I think that his defense team is going to prove that. They haven't even started their own case yet.
KING: Cynthia, do you expect some surprises from the defense?
MCFADDEN: Oh, nothing would surprise me at this point really, Larry. Only a no surprise would be surprising. But I would just point out to viewers, to keep an eye on the strategy of the prosecution, which I think has been quite interesting in having two mothers already testify in advance of having the accuser's mother in this case take the stand.
KING: Why?
MCFADDEN: Because I mean, I think one of the normal things as a regular person, you think is how could any mother let this happen to her kid? If she thought things were so desperately bad at Neverland, why would she allow him to go into Michael Jackson's room? Why would she allow him to sleep there night after night? And now the jury has heard from two other mothers, who allowed the same thing to happen. And I think that will help the prosecution in this case.
KING: Nancy, how much longer will this trial take?
GRACE: Oh, well over a month. Everything in California takes longer than anywhere else in the country. And I think Mesereau, you know, a lot of times defense attorneys promise a lot in the opening and it never happens. I think Mesereau is going to mount a serious defense.
KING: Do you agree with that, Diane?
DIMOND: Oh, absolutely.
KING: Vigorous defense?
DIMOND: A vigorous defense. He's vigorous in cross-examination. He's really interesting to watch. And this jury watches everything. I tell you what, tomorrow, when I believe the mother will -- the mother of the accuser will take the stand, I'm going to be watching juror No. 12. She's a welfare eligibility officer, and if this mother, if any of that testimony comes in about welfare fraud and what she did with some of these checks, putting them through her boyfriend's account, I'm going to be watching juror No. 12 in the front row, because she's going to have a definite opinion about someone who would do that.
KING: Thank you all very much. Diane Dimond, Nancy Grace, Ted Rowlands, Michael Cardoza, Cynthia McFadden and Raymone Bain. Earlier, of course, Maria Shriver Schwarzenegger, the first lady of California.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Can't say it ain't interesting, what's going on in California. We welcome Diane Dimond. She's in Santa Maria, executive investigative editor of Court TV. She's been covering Michael Jackson for 12 years. In Atlanta is Nancy Grace, the host of "NANCY GRACE" on CNN HEADLINE NEWS. She's an anchor on Court TV, former prosecutor, and author of an upcoming book, "Objection." In Santa Maria is Ted Rowlands, the CNN correspondent covering the trial. In San Francisco is Michael Cardoza, the defense attorney, former Alameda County prosecutor. He's attended some of the sessions. And in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida tonight is Raymone Bain, Michael Jackson's spokesperson.
All right, Ted Rowlands, what happened today?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we heard from the alleged victim's stepfather today. And it seems as though this is just a prelude to the alleged victim's mother, who we assume is coming in the next few days if some issues can be ironed out.
Today on the stand, the stepfather for the prosecution helped with their conspiracy charges against Jackson, by saying that during the time the prosecutors say the family was being held against their will at Neverland, he received phone calls from the accuser's mother. And he said that she was upset during those phone calls and agitated. And he was brought on basically to help out with this theory, that this family was being held against their will.
This is a charge, obviously, Michael Jackson denies.
On cross-examination, Jackson's lawyer, Thomas Mesereau, concentrated on the fact that this father seemed to be -- this is what the defense is trying to portray -- that this father was looking for money, like a lot of other witnesses, because he negotiated with a tabloid, a British tabloid. He was never paid anything, but he did negotiate to sell his family's story with the tabloid.
And then when Michael Jackson went to him, to this family to help with this rebuttal video after the Bashir documentary aired, this father, stepfather, said, well, wait a minute, what's in it for the family? And he negotiated a deal or tried to with the Jackson camp. At one point, he said that they offered to pay for the kid's college education and a new house, but he said he turned it down. So Thomas Mesereau obviously concentrated on that. We are expecting the mother to testify possibly tomorrow.
KING: Cynthia, there were reports at ABC saying that she may not testify? Will she testify?
CYNTHIA MCFADDEN, ABC NEWS: My colleague, Jim Avila, this morning, Larry, reported on "Good Morning America" that there were problems with her testimony. I mean, if you ask me whether I bet they worked those problems out, I think that most of us would say they're probably going to work those out.
KING: Problems like?
MCFADDEN: Well, there are allegations that she, in fact, committed welfare fraud in a previous time. And the defense...
KING: Will bring that up. MCFADDEN: Wants to question her about that. Now, Mr. Sneddon has put a motion in front of the judge saying let's restrain the defense from asking those questions. The judge is going to rule on that tomorrow.
KING: You're entitled to ask the witness questions, aren't you?
MCFADDEN: Well, only questions that are relevant.
KING: Diane, of course we're all in a guessing game, since only 12 people are going to decide this. So in your own opinion, how is this trial going?
DIANE DIMOND, COURT TV: Well, I think it's going the state's way right now, but that's because we're in the state's case. People who try to make a prediction now -- we really haven't heard Tom Mesereau's case yet. He's got an awful lot of celebrities on the list. He's got an awful lot of people who have been very close to Michael Jackson for a lot of years. And they could be just as compelling as this part of the case. I really think it's way too early. I'm looking at the end of June at least until this case is over.
KING: Nancy Grace, is this a tough prognostication?
NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": Well, I think that it's going to be tough on both sides, Larry. And I also think that it's too soon to call the case. It is all going to boil down to a credibility contest, and this mother was a lynchpin for the state.
Now, here's the kicker. In California, if you're going to try to impeach someone's credibility, she does not have a conviction for welfare fraud. So Mesereau would have to go on a fishing expedition with questions in themselves that would be irrelevant. So it's going to be very difficult for Mesereau to do this without a conviction on the mother.
KING: Michael Cardoza, is the prosecution, in your opinion, doing a good job to this point?
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think they're doing a very good job to this point. I'll tell you what, you compare it to the Peterson case, these district attorneys are professional, they're well prepared, and they're putting on the case as any good professional prosecutor would do.
I know Sneddon has taken a lot of tough cases to trial. I was a DA in Los Angeles for two years. And I had a friend out there who moved up to Santa Maria, and he's told me a lot of cases that Sneddon takes to trial are very difficult cases, but he gets convictions. Here's another one, and he may well get a conviction in this one.
KING: Raymone Bain, as spokesperson for Michael, are you very concerned?
RAYMONE BAIN, MICHAEL JACKSON SPOKESPERSON: Larry, I can't say that we're very concerned. In fact, I spoke to Michael just before coming on. He sends his regards. I asked him just how he was doing. He's mentally and spiritually very strong. Physically, he's a bit tired now, because of the rigors of getting up in the morning. But he feels that things are going very, very well. Tom Mesereau is doing an excellent job. There's been a string of witnesses coming in and out, who lack a lot of credibility. There are also concerns on our end, Larry, that we kind of hope that many of the pundits and journalists who are out here reporting be a little bit more fair and balanced.
I mean, we have all of these salacious headlines, like Mrs. Jackson not being able to sit in court because of the lurid details, when she only went to the bathroom and because the jury had been seated she couldn't get back in court.
A lot of that wears on you, because when you hear it and you're sitting there, and you wonder, well, am I in the same courtroom as some of these journalists who are reporting this? So there are a couple of things that you know, we wish would get better. But for the most part, Michael is doing OK. He's tremendously pleased with Tom Mesereau and his defense team right now.
KING: Cynthia, does that optimism surprise you?
MCFADDEN: No, I think it's appropriate. I mean, this is a midpoint. But Larry, I have to say -- and I'd be interested to know if other panelists know anything other than this. I've never covered a case, I'm not familiar with any case where allegations of past bad acts have been introduced against a defendant, and the defendant has been able to prevail in a case of child sex molestation. The stakes have changed...
KING: You know of no history where...
MCFADDEN: Well, I'm sure there's a case somewhere, and maybe we'll get a call from a viewer who knows about it. But I have to tell you, it changes the playing field in the courtroom significantly. When you're not just defending this one case, suddenly there all are these other allegations out there.
KING: And again, you're guessing for 12 people, though.
MCFADDEN: It's tough.
KING: They may look at it completely differently than -- but...
MCFADDEN: We know it's tougher. This much we do know, it's tougher. Now, whether or not it's impossible, we don't know. But it's much tougher.
KING: We'll get the other panelists' opinion right after this break. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: The mother said Michael Jackson convinced her to allow her son to share his bed on a trip to Las Vegas, after she said Jackson cried and asked her, quote, "don't you trust me, we're family."
The woman said Jackson ended up sleeping at her house, spending more than 30 nights. Each time she said Jackson slept with her son in his room.
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KING: Let's go around the horn. Ted Rowlands, do you agree with Cynthia's analysis, that it's very hard with these prior acts coming in, for the defense to prevail?
ROWLANDS: Oh, yeah. I think it's night and day, Larry. Because what is happening, as Cynthia pointed out, Thomas Mesereau is now defending allegations from six different alleged accusers. And they're coming from all sides. You have a cook, you have a maid, you have a security guard, all claiming that they saw Michael Jackson doing this, that and the other thing to all of these different children. And Mesereau has been very effective at attacking each one of these witnesses, and breaking down their credibility on a case by case basis. But when you have an avalanche of this coming at you, it is awfully difficult to defend.
KING: Diane, does it begin to be, looks like a duck, acts like a duck, walks like duck, might be a duck? Diane, do you hear me?
DIMOND: Oh, I hear you, Larry. The sound did drop out. Yes, you know, Ted's absolutely right. Not only has his jury heard from this now 15-year-old survivor of cancer, they also heard from the maid's son, 24-years-old, a youth pastor, a real good looking kid. In fact, the two kind of look alike. Then they heard from the mother of the 1993 accuser. And there's a thread going on here, a pattern of behavior, which is why this 1108 -- it's called 1108 evidence -- is allowed in, to show a pattern of behavior. And as all your panelists are cautioning, it's up to the jury to decide if they believe this thread. But there's an awful lot of similarities.
KING: Now, Nancy, if you were the defense -- how is a defense attorney overcome this kind of thing?
GRACE: Now, Larry, you know you're asking the wrong person.
KING: No, come on. I'll tell you why, it's always good to know what the other side will do, right? Well, what would you do?
GRACE: In this case Mesereau has done it all right. He tried to keep out the similar transactions. He's trying to shred the credibility of each of the witnesses they are putting up. But back to Cynthia's original claim that it's so much harder, she's right, it is harder. But this is not unusual, Larry. In many, many child molestations you dig and you don't have to dig deep, you will find other allegations in the past. And also this is not an ambush. They knew this was coming. These are cases that Michael Jackson settled for millions of dollars. He knew this would happen. I think his biggest problem regarding the similar transactions or past bad acts, is that 24-year-old young man who was a religious youth worker and claims molestation in the past. That kid -- I call him a kid, he's 24-years-old now. But that kid was barely touched. Couldn't lay a glove on him on cross-exam. And if they should be careful of any of the witnesses, it's him.
KING: Michael Cardoza?
CARDOZA: Yes.
KING: Is we at a point where he's almost going to have to take the stand?
CARDOZA: Michael Jackson -- I think we are, Larry. Mesereau already promised he's going to take the stand, so I don't think he can go back on that promise or it's going to be handed to him by the jury when they go back and deliberate. Even though they're not supposed to talk about it, you know it's going to be in their mind. And everybody's really right about these past incidents in Michael Jackson's life. And that's why it's really the art of the defense. Mesereau's doing a wonderful job here. He's certainly up to this task. And what he has to do is push all these prior incidents aside, and somehow address those and maybe admit perhaps they didn't happen. But we're not trying that case. We're trying this particular case.
And remember what happened in this case. The victim in this case loved Michael Jackson up until the Bashir video. The family loved Jackson up until then. And then right after the Bashir video, when Jackson reaches out to them, and says, please help me here, I want to make a rebuttal video, help me. What do they say? What are you going to give us? How much money? They're not able to get money. So what do they do, and this is what the defense will argue, they go to the defense attorney or plaintiff's attorney Feldman, and they say, he molested our child, get us a quick $20 million. That will be the defense in the case. And that's what Mesereau has to do here, is focus the jury on this case and not let the D.A. bolster it with all these other incidents.
KING: Raymone, do you believe he'll take the stand?
BAIN: I think he'll do whatever his team tells him to, Larry. I think that...
KING: Does he want to?
BAIN: Well, the times that I have spoken to him, he has indicated to me that he will follow the lead of his defense team. He feels that he is innocent here. He feels that at the end of the day he will be vindicated of false charges. And I think, Larry, what Michael will do is listen to what Tom Mesereau, Brian Oxmonfeger (ph), Susan Yu will advise. And if they tell him he should take the stand, then he will take the stand. Because he's not running from anything. Michael Jackson doesn't feel like he has anything to hide. He is going to be very honest. And frankly, I don't think he'll be worried about taking the stand, because all he can do is tell the truth.
And I think that at the end of the day, that's what matters here in this case. And we haven't been seeing a lot of that. And I'm sure that some of our pundits here tonight will let you know that throughout the last several weeks, there is a big credibility issue here.
KING: On all these people? All these people have a credibility problem?
BAIN: Yes, indeed. And I think that what a lot of the people in America don't know is, everybody who has been in there owes Michael Jackson money, Larry. Michael Jackson has a judgment against him. That's true.
GRACE: That's just not true.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: One at a time.
BAIN: They owe him $1.6. million.
DIMOND: And the more witnesses that have come forward...
BAIN: They owe him $1.6 million.
DIMOND: The more the witnesses come forward, the more the defense has to go down to everybody else's line except Michael Jackson. There were people on the stand, Larry, that lost a lawsuit to Michael Jackson. And now they owe him $1.6 or .7 million. That was in 1996.
BAIN: Larry, everybody that's coming into court is on the 1108 motion.
DIMOND: Not everyone owes Michael Jackson money. You can not say that.
KING: I've got to get a break guys. Hold up. Let me get a break and let Cynthia (UNINTELLIGIBLE) let the other panel members get in too. Don't go away.
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KING: OK, Cynthia, where do you stand on this? Does he have to take the stand?
MCFADDEN: Well, you know, after what we've seen in the last few days, Larry. I think that the defense which promised originally with the sort of a wink and a nod that Mr. Jackson was going to testify in opening statements to the jury...
KING: Raymone says, he'll do whatever they tell him.
MCFADDEN: I suspect that the defense is leaning at this point towards putting him on the stand, but it's a long way before the defense has to make that decision. And I suspect that if he does testify, everything else goes out the window. It then becomes does the jury believe him or not.
KING: Nancy, do you agree with that. If he testifies, it comes down to a matter of belief?
GRACE: It always happens that way, Larry. Once the defendant takes the stand, the whole question in the jury's mind is, was he telling the truth or not? Do we like him or not? Do we believe him or not? It shifts everything once the defendant takes the stand. And I would like to point out that just because Tom Mesereau said it in opening statements does not make it so. Four things already he promised in openings have been disproved by state's witnesses. I take great issue with saying that everybody that has testified for the state owes Jackson money. That is not true.
BAIN: That's not what I said. I said the majority of them that are coming into court under the 1108 motion owes Michael Jackson money. That's what I said.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know what?
BAIN: That is true.
GRACE: It's just not true. It's just not true.
BAIN: I also want to point out...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: One at a time.
GRACE: ... regarding whether he'll take the stand. Here is the toss of the coin. Jackson is incredibly charismatic, but he'll have to live down the Bashir documentary. And think about it, Larry, the man came to court in his pajamas.
BAIN: It's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) hospital.
GRACE: He's not going to take the stand. He can't take the stand.
BAIN: And there was a bench warrant issued for his arrest.
KING: All right, one at a time. Michael.
CARDOZA: Larry, I can just imagine right now that in making this decision -- and one thing that Nancy's right about is they don't have to make up their mind whether they're going to put him on right now or not. Mesereau did indicate they were going to, which I think was a mistake, but notwithstanding that, they've got to be running through many mock cross-examinations with him.
And I'll tell you, if I were defending him, I would be on the edge of my chair the entire time Jackson was on that witness stand. I can just imagine Sneddon is going to go after him. It's going to be unbelievable. He'll keep him on there for days. And we all know Jackson is spoiled. So when he gets up there, if he doesn't like something, he doesn't get to walk off that witness stand.
GRACE: He'll never make it, Michael.
CARDOZA: I don't think...
GRACE: They'll never let him (ph).
CARDOZA: I agree with you. I don't think he'll make it either. And that's why I'm saying I'd be on the edge of the chair.
BAIN: Well, I disagree with all of you. Because if Michael Jackson has to take the stand -- Michael Jackson has been in this business for 41 years. He's no idiot. He's very articulate. He's very brilliant. He's very bright. And I think maybe you all will be surprised, because I don't know what impression -- well, yes, I do...
GRACE: Well, I agree...
(CROSSTALK)
BAIN: I do know what impression a few of you have of Michael. But I think that if Michael Jackson, the decision is for Michael Jackson to take the stand, I think you will all be surprised. I don't think -- I think like any other defense witness, Larry, OK, it will be give-and-take between the prosecutor and the defendant, but Michael Jackson is no slouch. And I think that at the end of the day, they're going to be very surprised at Michael Jackson.
KING: Let me get a break. When we come back, we've got more to come. Don't go away.
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KING: Let's get one call to get into this. Port Richey, Florida, hello.
CALLER: Yeah, hi, good evening, Larry. This is for anyone to ask -- answer. With all these allegations against Mr. Jackson, will this jeopardize the custody of his children being with him?
KING: Diane, do you know?
DIMOND: Well, it could. Very obviously, there's a custody case going down in Los Angeles now because his ex-wife, Debby Row, apparently wants his two oldest children back. I can't think that this helps in any way, especially if he is, in fact, convicted.
KING: Michael?
CARDOZA: Well, if he's convicted, he's going to go to state prison. He'll be there for 20 plus years. Of course, it is going to affect the custody of the children, and they probably will be given back to Debby Row, the mother.
KING: Nancy, is prison automatic in a pedophile case?
GRACE: Well, a lot of times, no, but in this case, if he's convicted, he's going to jail. And the issue, Larry, as to whether he will take the stand, I can tell you right now, Jackson can never hold up. His spokesperson is correct. He's articulate, he's talented, he's brilliant in the music world. But his behavior and demeanor in court, he's not even on the stand yet. He would be destroyed on cross, Larry.
KING: As a popular person, Cynthia, don't you think most people want these charges to not be true? He's entertained so many millions for so many people for so many years, don't you think the gut feeling is I hope this is all going away?
MCFADDEN: Nobody could want this to be true. I mean, if these allegations are true...
KING: You'd have to be sadistic to want them to be true.
MCFADDEN: It's horrific. But you know, I think your point is that I think maybe some of the jurors are sort of rooting for him secretly.
KING: It might well happen, right?
MCFADDEN: It might well happen, and I think that's a fair point. I mean, you know, you hate to think that Michael Jackson may have in fact committed these crimes.
KING: Ted, is this jury very attentive?
ROWLANDS: Oh, clearly, yeah. They are following along very attentively. And they're taking notes most of the time. I think this is a jury that is very well aware of what they are charged with, and that is to make a very difficult decision at the end of the day, and they are concentrating and doing a very good job of staying awake.
The schedule is very difficult, because there are no long breaks, but they're doing a very good job, it looks like, from my vantage point.
KING: Raymone, do you have faith in the system? Do you think the jury will out?
BAIN: Oh, I do have faith in the system. And I think Michael does as well, and I know Tom Mesereau and his defense team do, Larry. And we just think that at the end of the day -- I keep saying that -- we'll prevail, because I do know that Michael Jackson is innocent. And I can say this. I am under the gag order. But the judge has allowed Michael Jackson to say that he is innocent. So therefore, I'm not violating any gag orders by saying that. And the judge has given him permission to do so.
KING: But no, we don't know anything, Raymone. You weren't there, I wasn't there.
BAIN: No.
KING: We don't -- you think you know, you don't know.
BAIN: I don't know. But I do believe when Michael Jackson says he is innocent, he is, Larry. And I think that his defense team is going to prove that. They haven't even started their own case yet.
KING: Cynthia, do you expect some surprises from the defense?
MCFADDEN: Oh, nothing would surprise me at this point really, Larry. Only a no surprise would be surprising. But I would just point out to viewers, to keep an eye on the strategy of the prosecution, which I think has been quite interesting in having two mothers already testify in advance of having the accuser's mother in this case take the stand.
KING: Why?
MCFADDEN: Because I mean, I think one of the normal things as a regular person, you think is how could any mother let this happen to her kid? If she thought things were so desperately bad at Neverland, why would she allow him to go into Michael Jackson's room? Why would she allow him to sleep there night after night? And now the jury has heard from two other mothers, who allowed the same thing to happen. And I think that will help the prosecution in this case.
KING: Nancy, how much longer will this trial take?
GRACE: Oh, well over a month. Everything in California takes longer than anywhere else in the country. And I think Mesereau, you know, a lot of times defense attorneys promise a lot in the opening and it never happens. I think Mesereau is going to mount a serious defense.
KING: Do you agree with that, Diane?
DIMOND: Oh, absolutely.
KING: Vigorous defense?
DIMOND: A vigorous defense. He's vigorous in cross-examination. He's really interesting to watch. And this jury watches everything. I tell you what, tomorrow, when I believe the mother will -- the mother of the accuser will take the stand, I'm going to be watching juror No. 12. She's a welfare eligibility officer, and if this mother, if any of that testimony comes in about welfare fraud and what she did with some of these checks, putting them through her boyfriend's account, I'm going to be watching juror No. 12 in the front row, because she's going to have a definite opinion about someone who would do that.
KING: Thank you all very much. Diane Dimond, Nancy Grace, Ted Rowlands, Michael Cardoza, Cynthia McFadden and Raymone Bain. Earlier, of course, Maria Shriver Schwarzenegger, the first lady of California.
