Random questions/ thoughts I have- mainly concerning playback and TII

[therealCTE]

An actual comparison video.
honestly have never seen one before haha.
this also proves, I think, it was edited rather than taken from another rehearsal date.
mug does sound like the same vocals to me, just edited

 

[therealCTE]

A

In the 30 anniversary shows and in the History shows he still sang and dance, but his live perfomance are too weak than the Bad and Dangerous Era, he wanted to keep the level.

In BJ second night you can hear he was out of breath when he sangs live, in the history tour this don't happend, in the way you make me feel also in the ad-libs sounds very out of breath

For this reason i have many dubs.

I don't know how edited was Human Nature, but aparently the audio is a mix of boths rehearsals (23th June and another rehearsal), how i say the 23th June rehearsal was amazing.
In 97 shows michael was in a great shape, for this one reason i mean the 96 shows where are good perfomances and bad perfomances.

But i feel he not dance with the same energy in 97 like 96 shows.

BJ we are don't sure if the audio from the rehearsal or a demo, he is not sing with all his energy, like the dangerous rehearsals.

We need a rehearsal where he sangs like a show, like I Just Can't Loving You or Human Nature.


PD: Curioulsy Human Nature on TII would be more energic and more wild than the Dangerous Tour, Probably The Most Wild Version of Human Nature.

also, I’m sorry man.
I don’t mean this in a bad way but you become harder for me to understand each interaction

 

[FMJP]

An actual comparison video.
honestly have never seen one before haha.
this also proves, I think, it was edited rather than taken from another rehearsal date.
mug does sound like the same vocals to me, just edited

Yeah, also I honestly think that Michaels vocals in Beat it were from the rehearsals themselves and not entirely from the victory tour as many people think. I think we all expected him to sing in his lower register like on the DWT or the 1988/98 BWT but he was singing up in his head voice during Beat it, which sounded similar to his Victory tour vocals. I truly think what we hear in Beat it is mostly from the rehearsals with small phrases taken from the victory tour. What do you think?

 

[Dragón 1996]

Do you know the date of the rehearsal and who are the man at the side of Ortega?

 

[therealCTE]

Do you know the date of the rehearsal and who are the man at the side of Ortega?

I did actually find the date out but forget. It was around blue shirt which was either the 11th or 13 of June. Whatever date the Saturday was around then

 

[therealCTE]

I remember the original convo on this topic fondly and remember just letting information spew out but Jesus Christ, I basically wrote a whole movie in 2 days

 

[FMJP]

Do you know the date of the rehearsal and who are the man at the side of Ortega?

The date is June 5th. The other guy is Michael Bush

 

[Dragón 1996]

I did actually find the date out but forget. It was around blue shirt which was either the 11th or 13 of June. Whatever date the Saturday was around then

The date is June 5th. The other guy is Michael Bush

This was before michael's colapses and was send to home, is interesting because this day he do a great perfomance of i just can't loving you, but looks so skinny.

i don't know if i'am but i feel pressure on the atmosphere when i see the video.

Thanks

 

[FMJP]

I remember the original convo on this topic fondly and remember just letting information spew out but Jesus Christ, I basically wrote a whole movie in 2 days

Yes, although the overall topic isn't fun, its fun learning new things. And discussing those things.

One thing I've always noticed is how quickly Michaels mental "decent" happens, because he looks good in the early forum rehearsals (he went to like 4 in a row) then maybe two more at the forum then he doesn't show up for the next like 7(i know thats not the exact number but its in that ballpark), then he does but Kenny tells him he wont let him perform, then Michael does rehearse, then some days go by with no Michael, then the 23rd and 24th the's the Michael Jackson everyone knew, then he dies. kinda crazy how quickly everything happened/ escalated (granted that Michael's inconsistancy in showing up to rehearsal had been happening since early/ mid May)

I know I'm summarizing it very much and some numbers might be wrong but generally its correct- just crazy IMO how quickly things changed/ escalated.

Whats worse is that we know what was going on behind the scenes (the propofol, the weight loss, being checked out in rehearsals, the hot/cold thing, him needing psychiatric help but no one getting that)

 

[Dragón 1996]

Yes, although the overall topic isn't fun, its fun learning new things. And discussing those things.

One thing I've always noticed is how quickly Michaels mental "decent" happens, because he looks good in the early forum rehearsals (he went to like 4 in a row) then maybe two more at the forum then he doesn't show up for the next like 7(i know thats not the exact number but its in that ballpark), then he does but Kenny tells him he wont let him perform, then Michael does rehearse, then some days go by with no Michael, then the 23rd and 24th the's the Michael Jackson everyone knew, then he dies. kinda crazy how quickly everything happened/ escalated (granted that Michael's inconsistancy in showing up to rehearsal had been happening since early/ mid May)

I know I'm summarizing it very much and some numbers might be wrong but generally its correct- just crazy IMO how quickly things changed/ escalated.

Whats worse is that we know what was going on behind the scenes (the propofol, the weight loss, being checked out in rehearsals, the hot/cold thing, him needing psychiatric help but no one getting that)

Why he was checked in the rehearsals?

His mental disease was due to the propofol.

For him would be to hard, wake up in the morning and look at the mirror and realize he loss a lot of weight and feel it so sick and tired.

 

[FMJP]

Why he was checked in the rehearsals?

His mental disease was due to the propofol.

For him would be to hard, wake up in the morning and look at the mirror and realize he loss a lot of weight and feel it so sick and tired.

I think you're missing the point, I'm just pointing out how quickly everything happened. Not arguing what happened.

There was a rehearsal where Kenny said that Michael was murmuring to himself and then one where Kenny sent Michael home because he was not doing well.

Also I wouldn't call what he had a disease, he had anxiety and paranoia.

 

[Dragón 1996]

I think you're missing the point, I'm just pointing out how quickly everything happened. Not arguing what happened.

There was a rehearsal where Kenny said that Michael was murmuring to himself and then one where Kenny sent Michael home because he was not doing well.

Also I wouldn't call what he had a disease, he had anxiety and paranoia.

But he had a lot of time without sleep, for this reason he was in that bad state.

During the second leg of the HTW he take propofol to sleep since múnich and at the end of the tour he was so skinny.

Use the propofol without start the tour are too much i think, but probably he was under a brutal pressure affter the trial because his economy go to the shit, the people don't believe him and now put his career in game with TII.

 

[FMJP]

But he had a lot of time without sleep, for this reason he was in that bad state.

During the second leg of the HTW he take propofol to sleep since múnich and at the end of the tour he was so skinny.

Use the propofol without start the tour are too much i think, but probably he was under a brutal pressure affter the trial because his economy go to the shit, the people don't believe him and now put his career in game with TII.

I understand, but I'm not arguing with you, I agree, we all agree, that because of his lack of sleep that he struggled (and we have the proof for it too unfortunately), I think you misread my post.

 

[Dragón 1996]

I understand, but I'm not arguing with you, I agree, we all agree, that because of his lack of sleep that he struggled (and we have the proof for it too unfortunately), I think you misread my post.

I know all that happened in TII.

I live on the TII era and for someone with common sense could realize that Michael are not well.

This is that some fans don't want to see sadly.

 

[therealCTE]

Yes, although the overall topic isn't fun, its fun learning new things. And discussing those things.

One thing I've always noticed is how quickly Michaels mental "decent" happens, because he looks good in the early forum rehearsals (he went to like 4 in a row) then maybe two more at the forum then he doesn't show up for the next like 7(i know thats not the exact number but its in that ballpark), then he does but Kenny tells him he wont let him perform, then Michael does rehearse, then some days go by with no Michael, then the 23rd and 24th the's the Michael Jackson everyone knew, then he dies. kinda crazy how quickly everything happened/ escalated (granted that Michael's inconsistancy in showing up to rehearsal had been happening since early/ mid May)

I know I'm summarizing it very much and some numbers might be wrong but generally its correct- just crazy IMO how quickly things changed/ escalated.

Whats worse is that we know what was going on behind the scenes (the propofol, the weight loss, being checked out in rehearsals, the hot/cold thing, him needing psychiatric help but no one getting that)

It’s not too surprising to me tbh.
Basically all performance dates Michael was there at from the forum onwards seem to be basically what they shown in the movie. Like there’s not even photos from other dates not seen in the movie. Plus it lines up.
we talk about all this stuff but it’s only when you realise how much stuff can happen in that time does it seem so extreme.
but from experience, both mentally and physically that can happen to an extreme in less than a month, now add stress and not eating on top of that (which both destroys your mental and physical health) plus the substance issues working at the same time with the mental, it basically makes that whole process even faster.
Although I know how usual it is, the rate that happens, especially looking back does seem extreme even to me.

What’s sad and pains me is how self destructive Michael was while thinking he was doing the opposite

 

[therealCTE]

Why he was checked in the rehearsals?

His mental disease was due to the propofol.

For him would be to hard, wake up in the morning and look at the mirror and realize he loss a lot of weight and feel it so sick and tired.

But he had a lot of time without sleep, for this reason he was in that bad state.

During the second leg of the HTW he take propofol to sleep since múnich and at the end of the tour he was so skinny.

Use the propofol without start the tour are too much i think, but probably he was under a brutal pressure affter the trial because his economy go to the shit, the people don't believe him and now put his career in game with TII.

you’re missing and forgetting a key detail.
AEG and especially people in the production and actually saw Michael in that state, weren’t aware what he was using for sleep or at least the effects using it consistently for so long had, even Conrad didn’t know

 

[therealCTE]

I think you're missing the point, I'm just pointing out how quickly everything happened. Not arguing what happened.

There was a rehearsal where Kenny said that Michael was murmuring to himself and then one where Kenny sent Michael home because he was not doing well.

Also I wouldn't call what he had a disease, he had anxiety and paranoia.

Michael did have a load of mental problems that were chronic, let’s make that clear.
but I still agree completely with what you’re saying, what we saw in this is it was the actual long term mental disorders.

 

[Dragón 1996]

you’re missing and forgetting a key detail.
AEG and especially people in the production and actually saw Michael in that state, weren’t aware what he was using for sleep or at least the effects using it consistently for so long had, even Conrad didn’t know

Yes.

Because he starts to take propofol after the medical tests.

Probably they would know in the tests in London.

It's probably the laws don't let him perform in that state, for this reason they pressure murray.

 

[therealCTE]

Yes.

Because he starts to take propofol after the medical tests.

Probably they would know in the tests in London.

It's probably the laws don't let him perform in that state, for this reason they pressure murray.

The physical he had was for the tour. He wasn’t gonna have another one before starting.
Also, in terms of laws... either they didn’t apply much to performers at that time, considering the anorexia in runway models situation was just becoming a legal thing, or aeg or Michael or both found a loophole.

 

[Dragón 1996]

The physical he had was for the tour. He wasn’t gonna have another one before starting.
Also, in terms of laws... either they didn’t apply much to performers at that time, considering the anorexia in runway models situation was just becoming a legal thing, or aeg or Michael or both found a loophole.

I don't think his physical conditions in June are for do a tour.

He was really sick, for this reason always talk of the Michael on the begining of TII era.