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Michael Jackson: Ventas y posiciones en lista
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Nuestro compañero D.S. me ha enviado esta mañana dos artículos recientes muy interesantes que yo desconocía, me ha parecido oportuno comentarlos con todos vosotros. El primero es del Wall Street Journal sobre algo que ya se sabía ampliamente, que la cifra de los 750 millones de discos de MJ y de los más de 100 de Thriller es completamente falsa. El segundo es una entrevista de Hitsville a un analista del que os he hablado mil veces (Guillaume Vieira), es el dueño de fanofmusic y gurú en Ukmix, desde mi punto de vista es el mayor experto en venta de discos que circula por la red y, curiosamente, tiene un nick, MJDangerous, relacionado con Michael Jackson. Tan vastos son sus conocimientos que Hitsville le hace la siguiente entrevista sobre las ventas de Thriller y demás.
Espero tener tiempo esta tarde para ponerme a traducir y comentar algo más, es muy interesante. Reitero las gracias a D.S. por mandarme ambos artículos.
Spun: The Off-the-Wall Accounting of Record Sales Confusion Over Songs vs. Albums, Scant Historical Data Amplify Tallies for Michael Jackson and Other Pop Superstars
In the last three years of his life, long after the release of his final original album, Michael Jackson's career album sales took a curious leap.
For many years, Mr. Jackson's lifetime sales tally typically was reported at 200 million albums world-wide. But in late 2006, news articles began putting the number at 750 million, a figure that became part of the popular lore as Mr. Jackson was attempting a comeback. In the last few weeks, it has popped up in obituaries and retrospectives.
So how did the sales figure nearly quadruple? A likely explanation is that a rough tally of individual songs was misinterpreted or misrepresented to reflect album sales.
Such a numerical misstep is surprisingly easy to make in the world of album sales figures, where reliable information is spotty in the U.S., and often nonexistent overseas.
"When we were asked how many albums Michael Jackson sold, we were as embarrassed as anybody," says Adrian Strain, a spokesman for the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry, a London-based trade group. "We had to go to the Guinness Book of World Records."
Inflated numbers aren't unique to Mr. Jackson. The Beatles' supposed one-billion-plus sales record also reflects an estimate of the number of songs, not albums, according to trackers of such landmarks. Other performers, such as AC/DC, Julio Iglesias and ABBA, supposedly are members of the 200 million album club, but compiled sales figures put their respective totals closer to 100 million.
The modern era of music measurement began in the U.S. in 1991, when retailers began transmitting sales reports electronically to Nielsen SoundScan. Before then, the iconic Billboard charts relied on rankings rather than absolute sales figures from record stores. The magazine didn't know whether, at a given store, the No. 1 album outsold all others combined, or whether they were more tightly bunched, so it assumed equal spacing in assembling its chart, according to Geoff Mayfield, former director of charts at Billboard. Once SoundScan started compiling actual sales totals, Billboard used those numbers instead.
Today, SoundScan covers about 95% of music sales in the U.S., according to Chris Muratore, vice president of retail relations and research services for Nielsen Entertainment. SoundScan calculates that Mr. Jackson's albums have sold 23 million copies since 1991 -- far more than Julio Iglesias's 5.1 million, but a far cry from the Beatles' 57.6 million.
But SoundScan doesn't track data by album outside the U.S. and Canada, and has no numbers prior to 1991 -- nine years after the release of "Thriller," Michael Jackson's biggest hit. Also, SoundScan doesn't include sales made to record labels' music-club members as part of their promotional offers of, say, 10 albums for a penny. "It's not a true consumer decision to purchase each one of those items," Mr. Muratore says.
SoundScan isn't the only source of sales data. In the U.S., the Recording Industry Association of America charges record labels a few hundred dollars to certify shipments of albums. The RIAA reported 61.5 million album sales by Mr. Jackson throughout his career, fewer than half the total for Garth Brooks, and only 17th in the U.S. overall.
But record labels don't always request certification, and sales might not be tracked for more than a short period of time after an album is released. On the other hand, the certified numbers might overstate sales if stores order more albums than they are able to sell.
RIAA shipment figures also are used to determine which albums can claim coveted "gold" status (500,000 albums sold in the U.S.); or platinum (one million albums).
Outside the U.S., industry trade groups have their own methods for tracking album sales, but the data aren't standardized or readily accessible. The IFPI, the international trade group, provides rankings and industrywide totals, not sales by a given artist or album.
Turning to the Guinness World Records won't yield more definitive information, either. In the record book's most recent entry on "Thriller" sales, Guinness notes that in 1982, "estimations from Sony and the Recording Industry Association of America put sales at over 55 million copies, although Jackson's management claims that international sales have pushed the total world-wide figure to over 100 million." Guinness concludes that "while it is impossible to verify the final global sales, there is no doubt that it remains the biggest-selling album of all time."
With so little hard data made available by the recording industry, amateur music-data trackers have stepped in to try to fill the void. These sleuths dig through certifications, SoundScan figures and other sources to compile sales by album and artist.
One such enthusiast, Lau Ho Hoi, who works for a construction firm in Hong Kong and posts on a popular U.K. online music forum, gained attention on the music blog Hitsville last week for his posts from 2004 compiling Mr. Jackson's sales by country. In an updated analysis, he calculated that the pop star sold 131.5 million albums world-wide, and 65.6 million singles. The total doesn't include digital downloads, which have taken off for Mr. Jackson since his death.
Guillaume Vieira, an engineer in Paris, has compiled his own totals for his Web site, Fan of Music. By his count, Michael Jackson had sold 205.5 million albums before his death, plus many millions more in singles and downloads.
It is an impressive total, and second only to the Beatles, but far fewer than 750 million. That figure first got legs in late 2006, when Raymone Bain, a publicist for Mr. Jackson at the time, touted in a letter to Jackson fan clubs that sales had "exceeded over 750 million units."
Units could be interpreted to mean a rough tally of the number of songs sold, not albums. But many journalists and fans interpreted the figure as albums sold, and a wildly inflated number was born.
Mr. Jackson's record label, Sony Music, declined to share sales numbers. Ms. Bain didn't respond to requests for comment; she sued Mr. Jackson in May after their business relationship ended. In her lawsuit, she claimed Mr. Jackson sold "over 1 billion records world-wide."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124760651612341407.html
Everything you ever wanted to know about worldwide record sales—Michael Jackson, the Beatles, Pink Floyd and more!
On the UK message board I wrote about last week, ukmix.org, a poster calling himself MJDangerous has been submitting reams of information about sales figures from around the world, notably about Michael Jackson.
With that exhaustive data, I first assumed he was a Sony employee, based either in Britain or France. MJDangerous was kind enough to respond to an email I sent him. It turns out he is French, just recently out of school and working as an engineer. His name is Guillaume Vieira. He’s not in the business at all, but rather a fan who for the last six years has been collecting press releases, Billboard stories and sales data and collating them into a coherent and persuasive portrait of an elusive beast: Legitimate accountings of worldwide record sales. I found the information he had at his fingertips impressive*.
We had the following chat over the weekend. I rearranged it a little and did some minor editing.
Hitsville: Thanks for taking the time to talk about this. What’s your experience in collecting worldwide sales figures? They are notoriously difficult to discern, aren’t they?
Guillaume Vieira: Figures are difficult to discern in the beginning, but I faced enough of them to discern them immediately and quite easily now. I’ve checked charts, certifications and officially reported sales of over 10,000 albums in the last six years. When a figure is said to have been officially reported but hasn’t, I know it instantly. As I said, it is easy for me—I already know all the figures that have been really reported.
Hitsville: As you’ve no doubt noticed, the New York Times after Michael Jackson’s death stated flatly that he had sold 750 million records worldwide, and that Thriller had sold an “estimated” 100 million. Every other news outlet in the land, not to mention the indefatigable U.S. cable channels, cited similar figures. Are they accurate? What’s your best estimate about Thriller?
Vieira: The figure of “over 100 million” for Thriller came out, just like the figure of 750 million for Jackson, in November 2006 at World Music Awards. The last reported figure by Sony was 54 million worldwide, during the HIStory era, while the Guinness Book of World Records reported Thriller at “over 50 million” worldwide. In 2006, his management team reported it sold 104 million worldwide—54 million in the US according to the RIAA and 50 million elsewhere according to Guinness!
Thriller indeed sold over 28 million copies in the US. It was a giant blockbuster there (37 weeks #1). But to sell 100 million it would have to be even more successful in every other market than in the US, which represents 40 percent of international sales. It was for sure a blockbuster, but that much was simply not possible!
In UK, its shipment is up to 4,12 million copies with last week’s sales.
In France, it sold a record breaking 3,3 million copies (1,8 million by Feb 1984 according to Billboard; 2,5 million by 1988 according to SNEP—the French equivalent of the RIAA. Then we have documented sales for recent years).
Italy, 1,19 million up to 2001, published by Sony Music. Thriller 25 is Gold there, as a whole it sold 1,3 million in this country by now.
Germany, 3xPlat (1,5m**) since 1995, not many figures since that time but chart performances put it around 2 million.
Sweden, recently certified 4xPlatinum, 400,000, plus 20,000 copies for Thriller 25.
Netherlands, 800,000 copies by 1996 (8xPlatinum, highest certified album ever), by now over 1 million.
Austria, 400,000, 8xPlatinum, again highest figure ever reached (local albums included).
Belgium, 550,000, 11xPlatinum, second to Helmut Lotti’s Goes Classic only.
Spain, 500,000 by 1984, around a million currently.
In Europe, it sold close to 17 million copies. This figure is massive—more impressive than 28 million in US. Since IFPI introduced album certifications for Europe in 1994, no album ever reached even 10 million. The only one studio album that reached 10 million in Europe in the last 20 years is Dangerous, by Michael Jackson himself, released in 1991, which sold 12 million copies in the old continent. That album, regarded as half a flop in the US, is to Europe/Asia/Oceania the equivalent of Shania Twain’s Come On Over in the US—The biggest album released in the last 2 decades.
Billboard recently reported a figure of 2,5 million copies in Japan for Thriller (it sold 1,616,000 copies while charting in 83/84 alone, without counting imports, 30% of sales of foreign acts). It sold around 6,5 million in Asia.
Over a million in Australia, recently certified 14xPlatinum (980,000). In South America, it is the best selling album ever for a foreign act: more than 600,000 copies in Argentina, over 1,3 million in Brazil, 400,000 in Chile and a million in Mexico. Then over 3 million in Canada. In Africa, it sold 600,000 copies in South Africa alone, 300,000 copies in Turkey, over 2 million in the continent.
Then we only have to add figures: US 28,5m, Europe 17m, Canada 3,3m, Asia 6,5m, Latin America + Oceania 6m, Africa 2m, total around 63 million. As you can see, a lot of accurate data is actually known; the jigsaw is far from being as obscure as people may think. Give or take a maximum of 2m, this figure of 63 million is correct.
Hitsville: What’s your ballpark estimate of how many records Jackson sold worldwide?
Vieira:
Albums - at least 205 million, at most 225 million
Singles - at least 105 million, at most 120 million
Digital singles - at least 19 million, at most 22 million
Music Videos - at least 14 million, at most 17 million
Ringtones - 2 million, give or take a few thousands (1,4 million in the US)
All those figures don’t include sales of the Jackson 5/Jacksons, except for Digital singles. The group sold:
Albums - at least 45 million, at most 60 million
Singles - at least 40 million, at most 55 million
All together, that puts a ballpark at 430—500 million, but since some figures may be a bit too high, and others too low (they aren’t all in the low side or all in the high side), a more correct one would be worldwide records sales somewhere between 450 million and 480 million.
That’s around 80 million more than Elvis Presley, 40 million under the Beatles***.
Hitsville: Those are impressive figures, even if they don’t approach those big round numbers the papers were tossing about. Let’s talk about the Jackson Five for a minute. It’s funny—while I hadn’t published it, I was working on a post discussing whether the figure of 100 million sold for the Jackson Five, as is claimed, could possibly be right. To be honest, I thought it couldn’t; their heyday lasted about 18 months. In the U.S. they’re the equivalent of, say, Three Dog Night. On the other hand, I also remember Michael Jackson perhaps in the Martin Bashir documentary, recalling that as a 12-year-old he would get royalty checks of $200,000, which I thought was a large figure a) at the time and b) considering infinitesimal royalty rate the group was getting from Motown. But it makes sense if the group was selling records at those levels. Did they really sell anything like 100 million records?
Guillaume: The Jackson 5/Jacksons did sell around 100 million; they sold around 50 million of each singles and albums. But that is up to now! When that figure was first claimed in 1977, they were obviously, far, far from reaching it. That claim even supposed they were the second group reaching that milestone after the Beatles—outselling even the Rolling Stones, which was not true at all (and still isn’t!). Their single sales in the US were massive; even up to now they still are close to Madonna in this area, and outsold acts like Whitney Houston.
Hitsville: In the context of Motown, the Jacksons were the label’s 5th or 6th biggest act. As I look over a crude marker like the biggest chart acts of Billboard, its strikes me that Berry Gordy oversaw the careers of close to ten percent of the biggest acts in history. Do you have an off-the-cuff sense of how many records Motown sold?
Guillaume: Motown sales were truly gigantic in the 60s and 70s. Single sales were huge at that time and to be honest they were definitely dominating that sector. Album sales of Motown acts are very often not that impressive: First because the market wasn’t big at the time, second because their acts are more remembered for their singles than their albums in general, third because Motown releases the same hits packages again and again, cannibalizing sales of original albums. Only Stevie Wonder, and later Lionel Richie, sold loads of albums while signed by Motown. It is hard to guess the entire sales of the label (especialy since I haven’t studied several of their key acts), but let’s check a few of them:
- Jackson 5 - 70 million (not including sales of the Jacksons, who weren’t on Motown anymore)
- Michael Jackson - 20 million
- Stevie Wonder - 170 million
- Lionel Richie - 85 million
- Diana Ross/Supremes - 190 million
- Commodores - 60 million
- The Temptations - 110 million
- Marvin Gaye - 110 million
- Four Tops - 40 million
- Miracles/Smokey Robinson - 55 million
A total of 910 million - most of them were singles. With all their acts, it is safe to say the Motown label sold well over 1 billion records, which is an incredible total.
Hitsville: Now, if it’s fair to toss in the Jackson Five’s sales with Michael’s, it’s fair to toss in Paul McCartney’s with his previous band. What’s his totals compared to Jackson’s? Diana Ross’ totals as a solo artist combined with with the Supremes?
Guillaume: Diana Ross/Supremes total is ahead, not that far from 200 million records sold. Paul McCartney is the master. He sold around 170 million records on his own, added to over 500 million with the Beatles; that is over two thirds of the road to a billion! Obviously, on such a list, Michael Jackson wouldn’t be at 2, considering the three other Beatles would be ahead of him. Macca with 670m, Lennon with 620m, Harrison with 550m and Ringo with 525m, then Michael Jackson with around 465m. When we see how hard it is to sell 10 million records (and despite what most people think it has always been very hard), those numbers are from another world!
Hitsville: Janet Jackson gets overlooked sometimes in the Michael hoopla, but she is a top-tier star in her own right, isn’t she? What’s your best estimation of her worldwide sales and her ranking worldwide?
Janet sold 45 million singles and 65 million albums, which ranks her among the top 60 best selling acts ever, quite an achievement already, definitely a star on her own. She is in par with the likes Nirvana, Journey, and the Who in terms of album sales and sold many more singles than them.
Hitsville: What are the second and third best-selling albums worldwide, behind Thriller?
Guillaume: Dark Side of the Moon, by Pink Floyd, is the second-best-selling album ever. It is now up to 42 million and still selling very well year after year. It is harder to say which album is at three—a trio of soundtracks sold about the same at 40 million: Grease, Saturday Night Fever and The Bodyguard. Grease looks like having the lead yet and anyway is the one that is still selling the most so it will end at 3 sooner or later.
Jackson’s Bad ranks in the top 10 while Dangerous sits inside the top 20. Interesting to note that despite their relatively small sales in the US compared to Thriller, in the rest of the world they were almost as massive as Thriller and are among the seven and eight best-selling albums ever, along with Dire Straits’ Brothers in Arms, Dark Side of the Moon and the three soundtracks previously named. All those albums sold 20 to 23 million outside of the US, except Thriller, which sold close to 35 million.
———–
* I have no way of checking the authenticity of his figures but, to give an indication of the extent of the data he’s working with, a single post in this forum detailing Jackson’s sales just in the UK runs some 7200 words.
** Outside the U.S., platinum certifications are done somewhat proportionally smaller in the different markets.
*** Hitsville would like to point out his rough estimates on Jackson’s sales jibe roughly with Vieira’s.
http://www.hitsville.org/
Espero tener tiempo esta tarde para ponerme a traducir y comentar algo más, es muy interesante. Reitero las gracias a D.S. por mandarme ambos artículos.
Spun: The Off-the-Wall Accounting of Record Sales Confusion Over Songs vs. Albums, Scant Historical Data Amplify Tallies for Michael Jackson and Other Pop Superstars
In the last three years of his life, long after the release of his final original album, Michael Jackson's career album sales took a curious leap.
For many years, Mr. Jackson's lifetime sales tally typically was reported at 200 million albums world-wide. But in late 2006, news articles began putting the number at 750 million, a figure that became part of the popular lore as Mr. Jackson was attempting a comeback. In the last few weeks, it has popped up in obituaries and retrospectives.
So how did the sales figure nearly quadruple? A likely explanation is that a rough tally of individual songs was misinterpreted or misrepresented to reflect album sales.
Such a numerical misstep is surprisingly easy to make in the world of album sales figures, where reliable information is spotty in the U.S., and often nonexistent overseas.
"When we were asked how many albums Michael Jackson sold, we were as embarrassed as anybody," says Adrian Strain, a spokesman for the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry, a London-based trade group. "We had to go to the Guinness Book of World Records."
Inflated numbers aren't unique to Mr. Jackson. The Beatles' supposed one-billion-plus sales record also reflects an estimate of the number of songs, not albums, according to trackers of such landmarks. Other performers, such as AC/DC, Julio Iglesias and ABBA, supposedly are members of the 200 million album club, but compiled sales figures put their respective totals closer to 100 million.
The modern era of music measurement began in the U.S. in 1991, when retailers began transmitting sales reports electronically to Nielsen SoundScan. Before then, the iconic Billboard charts relied on rankings rather than absolute sales figures from record stores. The magazine didn't know whether, at a given store, the No. 1 album outsold all others combined, or whether they were more tightly bunched, so it assumed equal spacing in assembling its chart, according to Geoff Mayfield, former director of charts at Billboard. Once SoundScan started compiling actual sales totals, Billboard used those numbers instead.
Today, SoundScan covers about 95% of music sales in the U.S., according to Chris Muratore, vice president of retail relations and research services for Nielsen Entertainment. SoundScan calculates that Mr. Jackson's albums have sold 23 million copies since 1991 -- far more than Julio Iglesias's 5.1 million, but a far cry from the Beatles' 57.6 million.
But SoundScan doesn't track data by album outside the U.S. and Canada, and has no numbers prior to 1991 -- nine years after the release of "Thriller," Michael Jackson's biggest hit. Also, SoundScan doesn't include sales made to record labels' music-club members as part of their promotional offers of, say, 10 albums for a penny. "It's not a true consumer decision to purchase each one of those items," Mr. Muratore says.
SoundScan isn't the only source of sales data. In the U.S., the Recording Industry Association of America charges record labels a few hundred dollars to certify shipments of albums. The RIAA reported 61.5 million album sales by Mr. Jackson throughout his career, fewer than half the total for Garth Brooks, and only 17th in the U.S. overall.
But record labels don't always request certification, and sales might not be tracked for more than a short period of time after an album is released. On the other hand, the certified numbers might overstate sales if stores order more albums than they are able to sell.
RIAA shipment figures also are used to determine which albums can claim coveted "gold" status (500,000 albums sold in the U.S.); or platinum (one million albums).
Outside the U.S., industry trade groups have their own methods for tracking album sales, but the data aren't standardized or readily accessible. The IFPI, the international trade group, provides rankings and industrywide totals, not sales by a given artist or album.
Turning to the Guinness World Records won't yield more definitive information, either. In the record book's most recent entry on "Thriller" sales, Guinness notes that in 1982, "estimations from Sony and the Recording Industry Association of America put sales at over 55 million copies, although Jackson's management claims that international sales have pushed the total world-wide figure to over 100 million." Guinness concludes that "while it is impossible to verify the final global sales, there is no doubt that it remains the biggest-selling album of all time."
With so little hard data made available by the recording industry, amateur music-data trackers have stepped in to try to fill the void. These sleuths dig through certifications, SoundScan figures and other sources to compile sales by album and artist.
One such enthusiast, Lau Ho Hoi, who works for a construction firm in Hong Kong and posts on a popular U.K. online music forum, gained attention on the music blog Hitsville last week for his posts from 2004 compiling Mr. Jackson's sales by country. In an updated analysis, he calculated that the pop star sold 131.5 million albums world-wide, and 65.6 million singles. The total doesn't include digital downloads, which have taken off for Mr. Jackson since his death.
Guillaume Vieira, an engineer in Paris, has compiled his own totals for his Web site, Fan of Music. By his count, Michael Jackson had sold 205.5 million albums before his death, plus many millions more in singles and downloads.
It is an impressive total, and second only to the Beatles, but far fewer than 750 million. That figure first got legs in late 2006, when Raymone Bain, a publicist for Mr. Jackson at the time, touted in a letter to Jackson fan clubs that sales had "exceeded over 750 million units."
Units could be interpreted to mean a rough tally of the number of songs sold, not albums. But many journalists and fans interpreted the figure as albums sold, and a wildly inflated number was born.
Mr. Jackson's record label, Sony Music, declined to share sales numbers. Ms. Bain didn't respond to requests for comment; she sued Mr. Jackson in May after their business relationship ended. In her lawsuit, she claimed Mr. Jackson sold "over 1 billion records world-wide."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124760651612341407.html
Everything you ever wanted to know about worldwide record sales—Michael Jackson, the Beatles, Pink Floyd and more!
On the UK message board I wrote about last week, ukmix.org, a poster calling himself MJDangerous has been submitting reams of information about sales figures from around the world, notably about Michael Jackson.
With that exhaustive data, I first assumed he was a Sony employee, based either in Britain or France. MJDangerous was kind enough to respond to an email I sent him. It turns out he is French, just recently out of school and working as an engineer. His name is Guillaume Vieira. He’s not in the business at all, but rather a fan who for the last six years has been collecting press releases, Billboard stories and sales data and collating them into a coherent and persuasive portrait of an elusive beast: Legitimate accountings of worldwide record sales. I found the information he had at his fingertips impressive*.
We had the following chat over the weekend. I rearranged it a little and did some minor editing.
Hitsville: Thanks for taking the time to talk about this. What’s your experience in collecting worldwide sales figures? They are notoriously difficult to discern, aren’t they?
Guillaume Vieira: Figures are difficult to discern in the beginning, but I faced enough of them to discern them immediately and quite easily now. I’ve checked charts, certifications and officially reported sales of over 10,000 albums in the last six years. When a figure is said to have been officially reported but hasn’t, I know it instantly. As I said, it is easy for me—I already know all the figures that have been really reported.
Hitsville: As you’ve no doubt noticed, the New York Times after Michael Jackson’s death stated flatly that he had sold 750 million records worldwide, and that Thriller had sold an “estimated” 100 million. Every other news outlet in the land, not to mention the indefatigable U.S. cable channels, cited similar figures. Are they accurate? What’s your best estimate about Thriller?
Vieira: The figure of “over 100 million” for Thriller came out, just like the figure of 750 million for Jackson, in November 2006 at World Music Awards. The last reported figure by Sony was 54 million worldwide, during the HIStory era, while the Guinness Book of World Records reported Thriller at “over 50 million” worldwide. In 2006, his management team reported it sold 104 million worldwide—54 million in the US according to the RIAA and 50 million elsewhere according to Guinness!
Thriller indeed sold over 28 million copies in the US. It was a giant blockbuster there (37 weeks #1). But to sell 100 million it would have to be even more successful in every other market than in the US, which represents 40 percent of international sales. It was for sure a blockbuster, but that much was simply not possible!
In UK, its shipment is up to 4,12 million copies with last week’s sales.
In France, it sold a record breaking 3,3 million copies (1,8 million by Feb 1984 according to Billboard; 2,5 million by 1988 according to SNEP—the French equivalent of the RIAA. Then we have documented sales for recent years).
Italy, 1,19 million up to 2001, published by Sony Music. Thriller 25 is Gold there, as a whole it sold 1,3 million in this country by now.
Germany, 3xPlat (1,5m**) since 1995, not many figures since that time but chart performances put it around 2 million.
Sweden, recently certified 4xPlatinum, 400,000, plus 20,000 copies for Thriller 25.
Netherlands, 800,000 copies by 1996 (8xPlatinum, highest certified album ever), by now over 1 million.
Austria, 400,000, 8xPlatinum, again highest figure ever reached (local albums included).
Belgium, 550,000, 11xPlatinum, second to Helmut Lotti’s Goes Classic only.
Spain, 500,000 by 1984, around a million currently.
In Europe, it sold close to 17 million copies. This figure is massive—more impressive than 28 million in US. Since IFPI introduced album certifications for Europe in 1994, no album ever reached even 10 million. The only one studio album that reached 10 million in Europe in the last 20 years is Dangerous, by Michael Jackson himself, released in 1991, which sold 12 million copies in the old continent. That album, regarded as half a flop in the US, is to Europe/Asia/Oceania the equivalent of Shania Twain’s Come On Over in the US—The biggest album released in the last 2 decades.
Billboard recently reported a figure of 2,5 million copies in Japan for Thriller (it sold 1,616,000 copies while charting in 83/84 alone, without counting imports, 30% of sales of foreign acts). It sold around 6,5 million in Asia.
Over a million in Australia, recently certified 14xPlatinum (980,000). In South America, it is the best selling album ever for a foreign act: more than 600,000 copies in Argentina, over 1,3 million in Brazil, 400,000 in Chile and a million in Mexico. Then over 3 million in Canada. In Africa, it sold 600,000 copies in South Africa alone, 300,000 copies in Turkey, over 2 million in the continent.
Then we only have to add figures: US 28,5m, Europe 17m, Canada 3,3m, Asia 6,5m, Latin America + Oceania 6m, Africa 2m, total around 63 million. As you can see, a lot of accurate data is actually known; the jigsaw is far from being as obscure as people may think. Give or take a maximum of 2m, this figure of 63 million is correct.
Hitsville: What’s your ballpark estimate of how many records Jackson sold worldwide?
Vieira:
Albums - at least 205 million, at most 225 million
Singles - at least 105 million, at most 120 million
Digital singles - at least 19 million, at most 22 million
Music Videos - at least 14 million, at most 17 million
Ringtones - 2 million, give or take a few thousands (1,4 million in the US)
All those figures don’t include sales of the Jackson 5/Jacksons, except for Digital singles. The group sold:
Albums - at least 45 million, at most 60 million
Singles - at least 40 million, at most 55 million
All together, that puts a ballpark at 430—500 million, but since some figures may be a bit too high, and others too low (they aren’t all in the low side or all in the high side), a more correct one would be worldwide records sales somewhere between 450 million and 480 million.
That’s around 80 million more than Elvis Presley, 40 million under the Beatles***.
Hitsville: Those are impressive figures, even if they don’t approach those big round numbers the papers were tossing about. Let’s talk about the Jackson Five for a minute. It’s funny—while I hadn’t published it, I was working on a post discussing whether the figure of 100 million sold for the Jackson Five, as is claimed, could possibly be right. To be honest, I thought it couldn’t; their heyday lasted about 18 months. In the U.S. they’re the equivalent of, say, Three Dog Night. On the other hand, I also remember Michael Jackson perhaps in the Martin Bashir documentary, recalling that as a 12-year-old he would get royalty checks of $200,000, which I thought was a large figure a) at the time and b) considering infinitesimal royalty rate the group was getting from Motown. But it makes sense if the group was selling records at those levels. Did they really sell anything like 100 million records?
Guillaume: The Jackson 5/Jacksons did sell around 100 million; they sold around 50 million of each singles and albums. But that is up to now! When that figure was first claimed in 1977, they were obviously, far, far from reaching it. That claim even supposed they were the second group reaching that milestone after the Beatles—outselling even the Rolling Stones, which was not true at all (and still isn’t!). Their single sales in the US were massive; even up to now they still are close to Madonna in this area, and outsold acts like Whitney Houston.
Hitsville: In the context of Motown, the Jacksons were the label’s 5th or 6th biggest act. As I look over a crude marker like the biggest chart acts of Billboard, its strikes me that Berry Gordy oversaw the careers of close to ten percent of the biggest acts in history. Do you have an off-the-cuff sense of how many records Motown sold?
Guillaume: Motown sales were truly gigantic in the 60s and 70s. Single sales were huge at that time and to be honest they were definitely dominating that sector. Album sales of Motown acts are very often not that impressive: First because the market wasn’t big at the time, second because their acts are more remembered for their singles than their albums in general, third because Motown releases the same hits packages again and again, cannibalizing sales of original albums. Only Stevie Wonder, and later Lionel Richie, sold loads of albums while signed by Motown. It is hard to guess the entire sales of the label (especialy since I haven’t studied several of their key acts), but let’s check a few of them:
- Jackson 5 - 70 million (not including sales of the Jacksons, who weren’t on Motown anymore)
- Michael Jackson - 20 million
- Stevie Wonder - 170 million
- Lionel Richie - 85 million
- Diana Ross/Supremes - 190 million
- Commodores - 60 million
- The Temptations - 110 million
- Marvin Gaye - 110 million
- Four Tops - 40 million
- Miracles/Smokey Robinson - 55 million
A total of 910 million - most of them were singles. With all their acts, it is safe to say the Motown label sold well over 1 billion records, which is an incredible total.
Hitsville: Now, if it’s fair to toss in the Jackson Five’s sales with Michael’s, it’s fair to toss in Paul McCartney’s with his previous band. What’s his totals compared to Jackson’s? Diana Ross’ totals as a solo artist combined with with the Supremes?
Guillaume: Diana Ross/Supremes total is ahead, not that far from 200 million records sold. Paul McCartney is the master. He sold around 170 million records on his own, added to over 500 million with the Beatles; that is over two thirds of the road to a billion! Obviously, on such a list, Michael Jackson wouldn’t be at 2, considering the three other Beatles would be ahead of him. Macca with 670m, Lennon with 620m, Harrison with 550m and Ringo with 525m, then Michael Jackson with around 465m. When we see how hard it is to sell 10 million records (and despite what most people think it has always been very hard), those numbers are from another world!
Hitsville: Janet Jackson gets overlooked sometimes in the Michael hoopla, but she is a top-tier star in her own right, isn’t she? What’s your best estimation of her worldwide sales and her ranking worldwide?
Janet sold 45 million singles and 65 million albums, which ranks her among the top 60 best selling acts ever, quite an achievement already, definitely a star on her own. She is in par with the likes Nirvana, Journey, and the Who in terms of album sales and sold many more singles than them.
Hitsville: What are the second and third best-selling albums worldwide, behind Thriller?
Guillaume: Dark Side of the Moon, by Pink Floyd, is the second-best-selling album ever. It is now up to 42 million and still selling very well year after year. It is harder to say which album is at three—a trio of soundtracks sold about the same at 40 million: Grease, Saturday Night Fever and The Bodyguard. Grease looks like having the lead yet and anyway is the one that is still selling the most so it will end at 3 sooner or later.
Jackson’s Bad ranks in the top 10 while Dangerous sits inside the top 20. Interesting to note that despite their relatively small sales in the US compared to Thriller, in the rest of the world they were almost as massive as Thriller and are among the seven and eight best-selling albums ever, along with Dire Straits’ Brothers in Arms, Dark Side of the Moon and the three soundtracks previously named. All those albums sold 20 to 23 million outside of the US, except Thriller, which sold close to 35 million.
———–
* I have no way of checking the authenticity of his figures but, to give an indication of the extent of the data he’s working with, a single post in this forum detailing Jackson’s sales just in the UK runs some 7200 words.
** Outside the U.S., platinum certifications are done somewhat proportionally smaller in the different markets.
*** Hitsville would like to point out his rough estimates on Jackson’s sales jibe roughly with Vieira’s.
http://www.hitsville.org/
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Acab
1
Claro, si tengo tiempo avanzado el día, traduzco si no todo, al menos lo más destacable
Ya tenemos datos oficiales de Soundscan (el recuento de Hits Daily Double es orientativo, no oficial), MJ ha vendido 1.1 millones de discos en la semana pasada en USA (sin contar con sus trabajos con los J5). Aquí sus 6 álbumes más vendidos la semana pasada:
#1 Number Ones 349,000
#2 Thriller 264,000
#3 Essential 148,000
#4 Off the Wall 107,000
#5 Bad 97,000
#6 Dangerous 67,000
4 álbumes por encima de las 100.000 copias y casi 5. Increibles las 97.000 unidades vendidas de Bad.
Aquí un artículo de Billboard comentando la jugada:
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/michael-jackson-sells-1-1-million-albums-1003993589.story
Y nueva lista mexicana, para la semana que acaba el 5 de Julio (las listas mexicanas van siempre con mucho retraso). MJ arrasa absolutamente en el país hermano:
1 Michael Jackson - Thriller 25 Aniversary
3 Michael Jackson - King of Pop Greatest Hits Mexican
Collection
8 Michael Jackson - Essential Michael Jackson
9 Michael Jackson - Greates Hits History Vol 1 (
12 Michael Jackson - Dangerous
16 Michael Jackson - Numbers Ones
21 Michael Jackson - The Motown Years
26 Michael Jackson - Bad
36 Michael Jackson - A History Past Present
73 Michael Jackson - Live In Concert in Bucharest
http://greaves.tv/amprofon3/Top100.pdf
ezequiel
I used to dream
A mi tampoco me salen las cuentas con eso de 750 millones de discos.
Con la motown vendió unos 100 millones + 55 de thriller (no sé de dónde sale eso de 100) + 30 de bad + 30 de dangerous + 20 off the wall + 20 history + 20 invincible junto a botdf y redondeando un poco con la venta de singles y demás discos de los jacksons... igual a unos 350 millones de discos (este es mi cálculo)
Con la motown vendió unos 100 millones + 55 de thriller (no sé de dónde sale eso de 100) + 30 de bad + 30 de dangerous + 20 off the wall + 20 history + 20 invincible junto a botdf y redondeando un poco con la venta de singles y demás discos de los jacksons... igual a unos 350 millones de discos (este es mi cálculo)
¿Podrías ser que estas cifras sean aproximadas? En el articulo que sale hoy en Billboard, las ventas de los discos de Michael son bastante mayores. Por ejemplo, Bad, 97.000, Off the Wall, 107.000, y el Number Ones 349.000 y Thriller 264.000 copias.
Es un artículo muy interesante sobre las ventas de MJ en Estados Unidos, Oceanía y Europa desde y hasta su muerte. Según el mismo, se han vendido esta semana, 1.1 millones de albums de MJ en Estados Unidos. Aqui os dejo el link.
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/michael-jackson-sells-1-1-million-albums-1003993589.story
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Saä
2
Sencillo, muy muy sencillo. Las ventas a lo largo de los años no es exponencial, pero los datos no se paran hasta pasados dos años del lanzamiento de un disco, eso no significa siga vendiéndose a lo largo de los años como fue Dangerous, Invinvible...etc...Sí hizo esa caja y más en inmobiliria, en contratazos de compra con multinacionales. No todo es su catálogo y el de los Beatles...es no es nada :|
Acab
1
Claro, Hits Daily Double hace un recuento previo y provisional. El oficial es el de Soundscan. Mira el post #567
Acab
1
Pero esas cosas no se hacen a ojo de buen cubero, hombre
En el primer post de este tema tenéis (lo voy a repetir una vez más :d) una estimación de ventas de los discos de MJ con Sony a 2009, unos meses antes del 25 de Junio, basada en los mecanismos oficiales de recuento de cada territorio (Soundscan, Oricon, etc), en el sistema de certificaciones, en las posiciones en lista (con especial análisis de las importantísimas listas de catálogo) y en otros indicadores relevantes.
Según lo cual, tenemos los siguientes números (todos los analistas importantes coinciden en ellos, con pequeñas variaciones en todo caso):
1979 Off The Wall 18.5
1982 Thriller 62
1987 Bad 32.5
1991 Dangerous 29.5
1995 HIStory 19.1
1997 Blood On The Dance Floor 5
2001 Invincible 7
2001 Greatest Hits HIStory Vol.1 2.8
2003 Number Ones 7.1
2004 The Ultimate Collection 0.48
2005 The Essential 2.5
Tras el 25 de Junio, Off The Wall y HIStory se pondrán por encima de los 20 millones. Todos sus álbumes van a sumar varios cientos de miles de copias más, en particular Thriller, Number Ones y The Essential.
Cambiando de tema. Aquí tenéis la nueva lista de catálogo de USA (el último número representa el total acumulado desde 1991, pero hay algunos errores):
BILLBOARD - CATALOG TOP 12 - 7/25 chart
1 1 JACKSON*MICHAEL NUMBER ONES 348507 3 339228 2620573
2 2 JACKSON*MICHAEL THRILLER 263803 41 187460 5040188
3 3 JACKSON*MICHAEL ESSENTIAL MICHAEL JACKSON 147808 18 125371 816236
4 4 JACKSON*MICHAEL OFF THE WALL 106513 108 51292 1747282
137 5 JACKSON*MICHAEL BAD 97201 999 1651 1200231
5 6 JACKSON*MICHAEL DANGEROUS 67394 157 26178 271539
7 7 JACKSON 5 ULTIMATE COLLECTION 34031 239 10042 522320
22 8 JACKSON 5 MILLENNIUM COLLECTION-20TH CEN 16979 280 4467 686752
10 9 JACKSON*MICHAEL VOL. 1-GREATEST HITS HISTORY 15228 98 7683 985789
16 10 JACKSON*MICHAEL HISTORY PAST PRESENT & FUTURE 14325 153 5656 2573425
9 11 JACKSON*MICHAEL INVINCIBLE 13601 61 8462 2137312
8 12 JACKSON*MICHAEL ULTIMATE COLLECTION 7246 -26 9793 128412
[Gracias a bks de Pulse]
Os pego una serie de gráficos de Billboard muy interesantes, el enlace está en el post #567:
Acab
1
Michael Jackson número 1 en la lista de álbumes española. Desde 1997 no ocurría esto...
#1 King Of Pop
#5 The Collection
#6 Thriller
#10 HIStory Past, Present And Future
#18 The Motown Years
#39 The Essential
#69 The Ultimate Collection (J5)
#89 Anthology
http://www.promusicae.es/listassemanales/albumes/top%20100%20albumes%20w28.2009.pdf
A destacar que The Collection, pack que contiene Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous e Invincible, se mantiene en el #5 y que HIStory reentra directamente en el puesto #10. Y Thriller es #1 en la lista de canciones. Para más información, consultad las listas de Promusicae.
#1 King Of Pop
#5 The Collection
#6 Thriller
#10 HIStory Past, Present And Future
#18 The Motown Years
#39 The Essential
#69 The Ultimate Collection (J5)
#89 Anthology
http://www.promusicae.es/listassemanales/albumes/top%20100%20albumes%20w28.2009.pdf
A destacar que The Collection, pack que contiene Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous e Invincible, se mantiene en el #5 y que HIStory reentra directamente en el puesto #10. Y Thriller es #1 en la lista de canciones. Para más información, consultad las listas de Promusicae.
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P
Planet Earth
Guest
Argentina - Ranking quincenal de venta al público
1 - Cantora 2
(Mercedes Sosa) SONY MUSIC
2 - Lines, Vines And Trying Times
(JONAS BROTHERS) UNIVERSAL
3 Cantora
(Mercedes Sosa) SONY MUSIC
4 - Hanna Montana
(HANNAH MONTANA) UNIVERSAL
5 Talento de Barrio
(DADDY YANDEE) UNIVERSAL
6 - Los Tangos de la Mesa de Café
(Varios) SONY MUSIC
7 Las Cosas Son Como Son
(RICARDO MONTANER) EMI
8 Teenangels 3
(Teenangels) CRIS MORENA GROUP - RGB - SONY MUSIC
9 - Operación Triunfo 2009 VoL. 2
(OPERACIÓN TRIUNFO 2009) WARNER
10 - La Revolucion
(WISIN & YANDEL) UNIVERSAL
11 21 Jason Mraz>we SinG. we DancE. we Steal ThingS.>album
(JASON MRAZ) WARNER
12 - Michael Bublé Meets Madison Square Garden
(MICHAEL BUBLE) WARNER
13 5° Piso
(RICARDO ARJONA) WARNER
14 21 st Century Breakdown
(GREEN DAY) WARNER
15 Operación Triunfo 2009
(OPERACIÓN TRIUNFO 2009) WARNER
16 Thriller (25th Anniversary Edition) Classic Cover O-card Cd+dvd
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
17 No Line on The Horizon
(U2) UNIVERSAL
18 Quiet Night
(DIANA KRALL) UNIVERSAL
19 Flight 666: The Film
(IRON MAIDEN) EMI
20 Alberto Cortez Intimo
(ALBERTO CORTEZ) SONY MUSIC
Ranking Quincenal Venta al público (DVD) (hay una pequeña perlita, a ver si se dan cuenta)
1 Flight 666: The Film
(IRON MAIDEN) EMI
2 Pink Floyd Live at Pompeii
(PINK FLOYD) UNIVERSAL
3 Live in Japan
(QUEEN) GLD
4 In London
(GENESIS) GLD
5 Live in Chicago
(GUNS ´N ROSES) GLD
6 Live in Japan
(MICHAEL JACKSON) GLD
7 Live in London
(PAUL McCARTNEY) GLD
8 Glastonbury
(OASIS) GLD
9 At Yokohama Stadium
(BON JOVI) GLD
10 Live in Japan
(AEROSMITH) GLD
11 A Night ro Remember
(ROD STEWART) GLD
12 Made in Argentina (dvd + Cd)
(Andrés Calamaro) WARNER
13 Live in Concert in Bucharest Dvd
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
14 Castle Doninigton England
(IRON MAIDEN) GLD
15 Say no More, 50 Aniversario
(CHARLY GARCIA) INTERNATIONAL DVD GROUP - GLD
16 Live in Japan
(KING CRIMSON) GLD
17 Plays The Orchestral Jethro Tull
(MARIAN ANDERSON) GLD
18 At Reading Festival
(NIRVANA) GLD
19 Gira me Verás Volver
(Soda Stéreo) SONY MUSIC
20 Vivere Live in Tuscany
(ANDREA BOCELLI) UNIVERSAL
Semanal (hasta el 4 de julio) (¡9 albumes sobre un total de 20!)
1 - Number Ones
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
2 - - La Fiesta Juntos de Verdad
(Varios) SONY MUSIC
3 - - Mi Amigo el Puma
(JOSE LUIS RODRIGUEZ) EMI
4 - - Thriller (25th Anniversary Edition) Zombie Cover O-card Cd+dvd
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
5 7 9 Lines, Vines And Trying Times
(JONAS BROTHERS) UNIVERSAL
6 - 1 Talento de Barrio
(DADDY YANDEE) UNIVERSAL
7 - - Dangerous
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
8 - - Bad
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
9 - - Essential Michael Jackson
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
10 - - La Revolucion
(WISIN & YANDEL) UNIVERSAL
11 - Off The Wall - re Edicion
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
12 - - Soul
(SEAL) WARNER
13 - - Greatest Hits Vol 1
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
14 - - Una Cuestión Personal
(Ulises Bueno) SONY MUSIC
15 - - 21 st Century Breakdown
(GREEN DAY) WARNER
16 Los Tangos de la Mesa de Café
(Varios) SONY MUSIC
17 -- King of Pop
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
18 28 3 Operación Triunfo 2009 VoL. 2
(OPERACIÓN TRIUNFO 2009) WARNER
19 - - Best Of/paint The Sky With
(ENYA) WARNER
20 - - History Past Present AnD...
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
1 - Cantora 2
(Mercedes Sosa) SONY MUSIC
2 - Lines, Vines And Trying Times
(JONAS BROTHERS) UNIVERSAL
3 Cantora
(Mercedes Sosa) SONY MUSIC
4 - Hanna Montana
(HANNAH MONTANA) UNIVERSAL
5 Talento de Barrio
(DADDY YANDEE) UNIVERSAL
6 - Los Tangos de la Mesa de Café
(Varios) SONY MUSIC
7 Las Cosas Son Como Son
(RICARDO MONTANER) EMI
8 Teenangels 3
(Teenangels) CRIS MORENA GROUP - RGB - SONY MUSIC
9 - Operación Triunfo 2009 VoL. 2
(OPERACIÓN TRIUNFO 2009) WARNER
10 - La Revolucion
(WISIN & YANDEL) UNIVERSAL
11 21 Jason Mraz>we SinG. we DancE. we Steal ThingS.>album
(JASON MRAZ) WARNER
12 - Michael Bublé Meets Madison Square Garden
(MICHAEL BUBLE) WARNER
13 5° Piso
(RICARDO ARJONA) WARNER
14 21 st Century Breakdown
(GREEN DAY) WARNER
15 Operación Triunfo 2009
(OPERACIÓN TRIUNFO 2009) WARNER
16 Thriller (25th Anniversary Edition) Classic Cover O-card Cd+dvd
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
17 No Line on The Horizon
(U2) UNIVERSAL
18 Quiet Night
(DIANA KRALL) UNIVERSAL
19 Flight 666: The Film
(IRON MAIDEN) EMI
20 Alberto Cortez Intimo
(ALBERTO CORTEZ) SONY MUSIC
Ranking Quincenal Venta al público (DVD) (hay una pequeña perlita, a ver si se dan cuenta)
1 Flight 666: The Film
(IRON MAIDEN) EMI
2 Pink Floyd Live at Pompeii
(PINK FLOYD) UNIVERSAL
3 Live in Japan
(QUEEN) GLD
4 In London
(GENESIS) GLD
5 Live in Chicago
(GUNS ´N ROSES) GLD
6 Live in Japan
(MICHAEL JACKSON) GLD
7 Live in London
(PAUL McCARTNEY) GLD
8 Glastonbury
(OASIS) GLD
9 At Yokohama Stadium
(BON JOVI) GLD
10 Live in Japan
(AEROSMITH) GLD
11 A Night ro Remember
(ROD STEWART) GLD
12 Made in Argentina (dvd + Cd)
(Andrés Calamaro) WARNER
13 Live in Concert in Bucharest Dvd
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
14 Castle Doninigton England
(IRON MAIDEN) GLD
15 Say no More, 50 Aniversario
(CHARLY GARCIA) INTERNATIONAL DVD GROUP - GLD
16 Live in Japan
(KING CRIMSON) GLD
17 Plays The Orchestral Jethro Tull
(MARIAN ANDERSON) GLD
18 At Reading Festival
(NIRVANA) GLD
19 Gira me Verás Volver
(Soda Stéreo) SONY MUSIC
20 Vivere Live in Tuscany
(ANDREA BOCELLI) UNIVERSAL
Semanal (hasta el 4 de julio) (¡9 albumes sobre un total de 20!)
1 - Number Ones
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
2 - - La Fiesta Juntos de Verdad
(Varios) SONY MUSIC
3 - - Mi Amigo el Puma
(JOSE LUIS RODRIGUEZ) EMI
4 - - Thriller (25th Anniversary Edition) Zombie Cover O-card Cd+dvd
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
5 7 9 Lines, Vines And Trying Times
(JONAS BROTHERS) UNIVERSAL
6 - 1 Talento de Barrio
(DADDY YANDEE) UNIVERSAL
7 - - Dangerous
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
8 - - Bad
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
9 - - Essential Michael Jackson
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
10 - - La Revolucion
(WISIN & YANDEL) UNIVERSAL
11 - Off The Wall - re Edicion
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
12 - - Soul
(SEAL) WARNER
13 - - Greatest Hits Vol 1
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
14 - - Una Cuestión Personal
(Ulises Bueno) SONY MUSIC
15 - - 21 st Century Breakdown
(GREEN DAY) WARNER
16 Los Tangos de la Mesa de Café
(Varios) SONY MUSIC
17 -- King of Pop
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
18 28 3 Operación Triunfo 2009 VoL. 2
(OPERACIÓN TRIUNFO 2009) WARNER
19 - - Best Of/paint The Sky With
(ENYA) WARNER
20 - - History Past Present AnD...
(MICHAEL JACKSON) SONY MUSIC
Última edición:
jaime
2
Capitán, he visto que en UKmix se extrañan de lo raro que es que en la lista española no estén ni off the wall, ni dangerous, ni bad, mientras que aparecen unos discos de la Motown por ahi abajo. Crees que puede deberse a que están a precios más bajos de lo normal? Porque estuve en la Fnac el otro día y tenían un montón de off the walls y dangerous, pero a 6 o 7 euros. Me suena algo de que por debajo de ciertos precios no pueden entrar en Promusicae, igual me lo estoy inventando.
En el caso de que fuese así, no hay ningún sitio en España para ver las ventas de todos los discos, incluidos los rebajados?Porque me extraña que se hayan vendido más Anthologys que cualquiera de los otros tres.
En el caso de que fuese así, no hay ningún sitio en España para ver las ventas de todos los discos, incluidos los rebajados?Porque me extraña que se hayan vendido más Anthologys que cualquiera de los otros tres.
D.S.
0
La verdad es que no entiendo a que viene el artículo del Wall Street Journal (a pesar de que lleve razón en lo de que los 750 millones de álbumes es una marca falsa). Yo lo veo mas como otro intento de restar méritos a su carrera.
Acaso en el artículo se ponen en duda las ventas de otros artistas? No. Nadie parece extrañarse con las ventas de Elvis Presley o The Beatles cuando en esas épocas el mundo era mucho mas grande en cuanto a fronteras y la importancia y el alcance de los medios de comunicación no eran tan determinantes como lo fueron en el momento de máximo esplendor de Michael, y mas cuando este tuvo un impacto tan grande en paises en los que los anteriores no llegaron jamás.
El trabajo de MJDangerous me parece glorioso.
Acaso en el artículo se ponen en duda las ventas de otros artistas? No. Nadie parece extrañarse con las ventas de Elvis Presley o The Beatles cuando en esas épocas el mundo era mucho mas grande en cuanto a fronteras y la importancia y el alcance de los medios de comunicación no eran tan determinantes como lo fueron en el momento de máximo esplendor de Michael, y mas cuando este tuvo un impacto tan grande en paises en los que los anteriores no llegaron jamás.
El trabajo de MJDangerous me parece glorioso.
Acab
1
Promusicae no incluye en sus listas los álbumes que cuestan menos de 7 euros
Fíjate bien lo que pone debajo de TOP 100 ÁLBUMES
http://www.promusicae.es/listassemanales/albumes/top%20100%20albumes%20w28.2009.pdf
No existe lista que sí los recoja en España (en UK existe una lista que sí recoge los álbumes rebajados, también en Francia y en otros países).
Yo vengo alabando sus virtudes años. Es genial poder contar con su dedicación y sus conocimientos. Nos ha facilitado las cosas enormemente a muchísima gente.D.S. dijo:
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Acab
1
Bueno, también se rechazan en ese artículo las informaciones absurdas que ponen las ventas de álbumes de los Beatles en 1 billón de copias o las de Abba por encima de los 200 millones...D.S. dijo:
Inflated numbers aren't unique to Mr. Jackson. The Beatles' supposed one-billion-plus sales record also reflects an estimate of the number of songs, not albums, according to trackers of such landmarks. Other performers, such as AC/DC, Julio Iglesias and ABBA, supposedly are members of the 200 million album club, but compiled sales figures put their respective totals closer to 100 million.
Esto de inflar las ventas es una técnica de los managers para ganar publicidad más vieja que las castañas. Raimone Bain fue la artífice de esos números ridículos, engatusó a los del libro Guiness, que luego tuvieron que dar marcha atrás y desvincularse muy pronto de esas cifras astrónomicas e imposibles de argumentar. También en su momento Raimone Bain emitió un comunicado estúpido afirmando que MJ había vendido más de 100 millones de discos en Japón. Debía de ser que la Ramona desconocía por completo que en Japón hace muchísimos años que el sistema Oricon recuenta las ventas de un modo similar al que luego se instauró en USA, el sistema Soundscan. Todos pudieron ver lo irreal de aquella afirmación de Ramona confrontada con los datos oficiales.
La prensa y la TV, que no tienen ni idea de cómo funciona el mercado ni de cuáles son los sistemas oficiales de recuento, se hacen eco de todas esas cifras imposibles para rellenar sus artículos. Es así de simple. Ya tienen algo impactante que escribir.
Lo he posteados varias veces por el foro. Así que hago un resumen, no tengo tiempo para más, lo siento. Artistas cuyos álbumes más han vendido en total:
1- The Beatles
2- Michael Jackson (205 millones antes del 25 de Junio)
3- Elvis
4- Pink Floyd
5- Madonna
Mira el post #359 para la información de los singles.
Y para concluir: Según las estimaciones de Hits Daily Double, Michael Jackson debería de vender esta semana en USA más o menos la mitad de álbumes de los que vendió la semana pasada (que fueron 1.1 millones). Ya veremos en qué queda la cosa.
http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/news/newsPage.cgi?news07677m01
Última edición:
OLEE¡¡¡¡¡ ya era hora de que subiese al uno en nuestro país, que entre bebe y tal, se hacía la cosa complicada. También es número uno en singles con thriller¡¡¡¡ Me alegro, aunque sea tarde todo este revuelo. Por cierto, el resto de sus albums, los que no son recopilatorios, parece que no cuentan al costar menos de 7 euros... aunque no se, me pareció que la semana pasada o la anterior si estaban en lista.