El post de las dudas (peludas, xp!) sobre MJ

[Juncanf]

Dialectos por ser mas precisos, como por cierto, en latinoamérica- los de aquí -consideramos las diferentes variantes del idioma en los diversos paises que lo conforman.

EDIT. menudo chat que nos hemos montao con el offtopic ¡acho pijo! (por cierto expresión del dialecto murciano: de la provincia de Murcia, ejeje!)

No es lo mismo acentos que dialectos. Los dialectos son derivados de un idioma que suelen derivar en un idioma diferente y acentos son simplemente diferentes formas de modular el mismo idioma.

 

[Juncanf]

Ahora sí q me has liao con lo del "latino neutro si modismos venezolano ni acento español" (¿¿¡¡??)

Po's me lo explique, xp!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-E12yr7Ye7g/hqdefault.jpg

Es que claro, cada uno considera que lo "normal" es lo suyo y lo "diferente" lo de los demás. Es lógico.

 

[Dragón 1996]

Pues no sé a qué te referirás con eso de la sh, pero supongo que te referirás al neutro.
Si, el acento canario es muy parecido al cubano.

Si me referia al canario

Dialectos por ser mas precisos, como por cierto, en latinoamérica- los de aquí -consideramos las diferentes variantes del idioma en los diversos paises que lo conforman.

EDIT. menudo chat que nos hemos montao con el offtopic ¡acho pijo! (por cierto expresión del dialecto murciano: de la provincia deMurcia, ejeje!)

En latinoamerica, hay variaciones también, pero son mucho mas leves, mas que nada cambia el acentó y algunas expresiones.

Por ejemplo a mi me encanta como hablan las colombianas

Jajaja, pues ya que hablas de realeza, el rey de España habla un español bastante neutro.

Y varios idiomas en el pais.

Si supuestamente hay una parte del país que creo que hablan en catalán, pero se quieren independizar y tal, hasta tienen otra moneda llamada pesetas, yo no entiendo como va el cuento, pero cuando vaya para allá lo averiguaré xD.

Y claro espero poner mi granito de arena montando un negocio y bueno esperar que la moneda española sea lo que era antes, por ahí escuche que antes era mas fuerte y tal pero no se han recuperado por completó de la crisis del 2008.

Como decia Michael Jacksok "Make a Little Space, To Make a Better Place"

 

[Juncanf]

Si me referia al canario

En latinoamerica, hay variaciones también, pero son mucho mas leves, mas que nada cambia el acentó y algunas expresiones.

Por ejemplo a mi me encanta como hablan las colombianas

Si supuestamente hay una parte del país que creo que hablan en catalán, pero se quieren independizar y tal, hasta tienen otra moneda llamada pesetas, yo no entiendo como va el cuento, pero cuando vaya para allá lo averiguaré xD.

Y claro espero poner mi granito de arena montando un negocio y bueno esperar que la moneda española sea lo que era antes, por ahí escuche que antes era mas fuerte y tal pero no se han recuperado por completó de la crisis del 2008.

Como decia Michael Jacksok "Make a Little Space, To Make a Better Place"

¿Pero como va a haber otra moneda en Cataluña? La peseta era nuestra moneda antigua, pero ya no la utiliza nadie desde que adoptamos el euro en el 2002.
Y si, ademas del español hay tres comunidades donde se hablan tambien otros idiomas: catalan en Cataluña, gallego en Galicia y euskera en el País vasco.

 

[Nafeesha]

Y claro espero poner mi granito de arena montando un negocio y bueno esperar que la moneda española sea lo que era antes, por ahí escuche que antes era mas fuerte y tal pero no se han recuperado por completó de la crisis del 2008

Te deseo suerte si vienes.

Pero como va a haber otra moneda en Cataluña? La peseta es nuestra moneda antigua, pero ya no la utiliza nadie desde que adoptamos el euro en el 2002.

Dichoso euro.

Aprovecho para retomar una pregunta que ya había hecho

: he leído que la batería de Human Nature la ha tocado Ndugu Chancler y no Jeff Porcaro. Qué hay de cierto en esto?

 

[Dragón 1996]

Pero como va a haber otra moneda en Cataluña? La peseta es nuestra moneda antigua, pero ya no la utiliza nadie desde que adoptamos el euro en el 2002.
Y si, ademas del español hay tres comunidades donde se hablan tambien otros idiomas: catalan en Cataluña, gallego en Galicia y euskera en el País vasco.

Pues por eso lo digo, no se nada sobre ese tema, soy un completó ignorante en lo que me conscierne.

Te deseo suerte si vienes.

Dichoso euro.

Aprovecho para retomar una pregunta que ya había hecho

Pues gracias, por mi parte no sabia que eres de allá xd

 

[Juncanf]

Te deseo suerte si vienes.

Dichoso euro.

¿Crees que con las pesetas habríamos estado mejor?.

 

[Nafeesha]

¿Crees que con las pesetas habríamos estado mejor?.

No sé nada de economía, solo sé que los precios de las cosas básicas han doblado o triplicado el precio.

 

[Strange Too]

Creo que el tema es para hablar sobre preguntas ACERCA DE MJ, para todo lo demás están los mensajes internos

 

[Nafeesha]

Creo que el tema es para hablar sobre preguntas ACERCA DE MJ, para todo lo demás están los mensajes internos

Llevas razón

: he leído que la batería de Human Nature la ha tocado Ndugu Chancler y no Jeff Porcaro. Qué hay de cierto en esto?

 

[Juncanf]

Creo que el tema es para hablar sobre preguntas ACERCA DE MJ, para todo lo demás están los mensajes internos

Lo malo es que con los mensajes internos no puedes hablar con todos a la vez. Pero sí, jajaja, es verdad que nos solemos ir por las ramas. Volvamos a lo que importa, o sea, MJ.

 

[Dragón 1996]

Algo que me parece curioso es que en el Bad Tour Michael es capaz de llevar el ritmo en la gira hasta noviembre de 1988.

Y en el Dangerous Tour en 1992, tiene que empezar a hacer cambios a finales de Agostó por el agotamiento, cuando supuestamente estaba en muy buena forma.

En el History Tour apesar de todo, en 1997 es capaz de mantener e incluso establece ciertos parametros como por ejemplo en que parte empieza a cantar en directo y no cuando estuviera preparado como pasa en 1996.

De Junio hasta finales de Agosto Michael tiene muy buena energia y no tiene que hacer cambios como bajar el pitch para poder cantar ciertas canciones (WBBS, BJ, Beat It) aunque el igual que el Bad Tour tiene que sacar ciertas canciones que por algún motivo estuvieron en todos los shows de la primera etapa.


The way you make me feel parece ser la canción mas negreada de las giras, ya que después de unos pocos shows en la segunda etapa es sacada del setlist, sacar el Off The Wall Medley creo fue innecesario pero imaginó Michael habrá tenido sus razones.


Y en cuanto a Blood On The Dance Floor, imaginó que al ver sus ultimas perfomances en Agostó no quedó muy contento, ya que la mayor parte del perfomance estaba caminando y usaba su energia en ciertas partes, curiosamente al igual que en el DWT justamente la sacan después de Oslo

 

[pussycontrol]

No es lo mismo acentos que dialectos. Los dialectos son derivados de un idioma que suelen derivar en un idioma diferente y acentos son simplemente diferentes formas de modular el mismo idioma.

Escussi, pero el dialecto es la variante regional del idioma en las diversas partes del territorio, o- como pasa con el español- allende las fronteras.
Incluidos los acentos.

Variantes dialécticas del español en España son: el andaluz, el murciano, el extremeño (o castúo), ....

NOTA : con el fin de no prolongar mas el chat paralelo offtopic paso esto y su respuesta si así lo consideras a otro post específico que he creado en Zona Abierta. este:

Post de información, intercambio de conocimiento de detalles de Latinoamérica y España.

Efectivamente, para no prolongar el chat en el otro post, propongo en este que podamos ir poniendo dudas, curiosidades que tengamos cada cual al respecto de diversos aspectos de cualquier índole: económico social,... de los paises que abarca los usuarios del foro , tanto mas cuando la comunidad...

www.mjhideout.com

 

[pussycontrol]

Y en cuanto a Blood On The Dance Floor, imaginó que al ver sus ultimas perfomances en Agostó no quedó muy contento, ya que la mayor parte del perfomance estaba caminando y usaba su energia en ciertas partes, curiosamente al igual que en el DWT justamente la sacan después de Oslo

¿¡Cómo que BOTD la sacan del DWT después de Oslo!?

 

[pussycontrol]

Llevas razón

: he leído que la batería de Human Nature la ha tocado Ndugu Chancler y no Jeff Porcaro. Qué hay de cierto en esto?

Me suena de haberlo leido también recientemente, pero no te sé decir.

 

[FMJP]

Something that seems curious to me is that on the Bad Tour Michael is able to carry the rhythm on the tour until November 1988.

And on the Dangerous Tour in 1992, he has to start making changes in late August from exhaustion, when he was supposedly in great shape.

In the History Tour despite everything, in 1997 he is able to maintain and even establish certain parameters such as where he begins to sing live and not when he was prepared as in 1996.

From June to the end of August, Michael has very good energy and does not have to make changes such as lowering the pitch to be able to sing certain songs (WBBS, BJ, Beat It) although, like the Bad Tour, he has to release certain songs that for some reason They were in all the shows of the first stage.


The way you make me feel seems to be the blackest song of the tours, since after a few shows in the second stage it is taken off the setlist, taking Off The Wall Medley I think was unnecessary but I imagined Michael would have had his reasons .


And as for Blood On The Dance Floor, he imagined that when he saw his last performances in Agostó he was not very happy, since most of the performance was walking and used his energy in certain parts, curiously as in the DWT exactly the take out after Oslo

I think that the main reasons Michael would remove songs from the set (I'm assuming, don't take my word for it) would be that he was tired, and didn't want to risk damaging his voice more, or not being able to keep performing at that level. Many forget that Michael turned 34 in 1992, already in his mid 30's doing arguably the most intense tour is demanding (again, just assuming).

One thing I think people forget is that, even though his microphone was off, he was still singing; we just couldn't hear it. Take for example the snippet from Munich 97 'in BOTDF where he hear his live vocals, he was singing, but he sounds hella fatigued. Michael I'd say hit his peak performance ability as an adult in 1988/89, don't get me wrong he was still always performing at that level going forward, but he paced himself. In 1993, you can notice that the beginning of Jam feels less "hype" than the 92 'leg, because, he was 35 years old, he can't use up all of his energy immediately. He does a lot less of full dancing throughout the song (save for the dance break) than compared to the 92 'leg. He began picking and choosing. Scream for example, you notice that his particularly difficult moves are spaced out in that song. You make a good point that he does a lot more walking than dancing sometimes in his songs like Scream, Billie Jean. Thats my theory on that.

Another thing worth considering is pacing. Maybe the pacing wasn't to his liking. IDK, haha Basically my main points are: He got older and couldn't keep up the same energy for 2 1/2 hours, and the pacing. Again, thats just my theory haha.

 

[FMJP]

Another thing I was thinking about, on a different note. In Michael's solo tours as an adult, what were his best periods for vocals. I think easy answer is leg 1 of the BWT, then I was listening to various concert audios and I think that the L1 of the DWT is better vocally than the BWT (some examples are: SOOML, IJCSLY, Billie Jean, MITM ad-libs ). He just sounded better, in 1988, his voice sounded a lot deeper and gruff, whereas the first leg of the DWT, his voice was a lot smoother, and had less of a gruff sound to it. Here's my ranking for MJ's vocal periods:

1. 1987 BWT
2. 1992 DWT
3. 1988/89 BWT
4. 1993 DWT
5. TII rehearsals (what he heard at least)
6. L2 HWT
7. 30th Anniversary
8. L1 HWT

I think that MJ's live vocals in TII sounded actually decent when he sang out, ex: IJCSLY, WBSS, Human Nature. The only reason I have L2 HWT above 30th anniversary is mainly for the fact that MJ was a bit more in shape in 1997, and in 2001, he was slightly outta shape, but he had good moments vocally. What do y'all think of my list, haha.

 

[Dragón 1996]

¿¡Cómo que BOTD la sacan del DWT después de Oslo!?

Lo digo porque en Oslo también sacan Bad y The Way You Make Me Feel, BOTD jamás estuvo en el DWT.

I think that the main reasons Michael would remove songs from the set (I'm assuming, don't take my word for it) would be that he was tired, and didn't want to risk damaging his voice more, or not being able to keep performing at that level. Many forget that Michael turned 34 in 1992, already in his mid 30's doing arguably the most intense tour is demanding (again, just assuming).

One thing I think people forget is that, even though his microphone was off, he was still singing; we just couldn't hear it. Take for example the snippet from Munich 97 'in BOTDF where he hear his live vocals, he was singing, but he sounds hella fatigued. Michael I'd say hit his peak performance ability as an adult in 1988/89, don't get me wrong he was still always performing at that level going forward, but he paced himself. In 1993, you can notice that the beginning of Jam feels less "hype" than the 92 'leg, because, he was 35 years old, he can't use up all of his energy immediately. He does a lot less of full dancing throughout the song (save for the dance break) than compared to the 92 'leg. He began picking and choosing. Scream for example, you notice that his particularly difficult moves are spaced out in that song. You make a good point that he does a lot more walking than dancing sometimes in his songs like Scream, Billie Jean. Thats my theory on that.

Another thing worth considering is pacing. Maybe the pacing wasn't to his liking. IDK, haha Basically my main points are: He got older and couldn't keep up the same energy for 2 1/2 hours, and the pacing. Again, thats just my theory haha.

I guess i was the unique think that xD

"even though his microphone was off, he was still singing;"

It's a shame since the DWT the mic in songs with playback is off and not open, the shows were the micro is open are few

In 93 i think he saved his energy because he was'nt with the same energy and mental health than 92 due to the allegations.

 

[Dragón 1996]

Another thing I was thinking about, on a different note. In Michael's solo tours as an adult, what were his best periods for vocals. I think easy answer is leg 1 of the BWT, then I was listening to various concert audios and I think that the L1 of the DWT is better vocally than the BWT (some examples are: SOOML, IJCSLY, Billie Jean, MITM ad-libs ). He just sounded better, in 1988, his voice sounded a lot deeper and gruff, whereas the first leg of the DWT, his voice was a lot smoother, and had less of a gruff sound to it. Here's my ranking for MJ's vocal periods:

1. 1987 BWT
2. 1992 DWT
3. 1988/89 BWT
4. 1993 DWT
5. TII rehearsals (what he heard at least)
6. L2 HWT
7. 30th Anniversary
8. L1 HWT

I think that MJ's live vocals in TII sounded actually decent when he sang out, ex: IJCSLY, WBSS, Human Nature. The only reason I have L2 HWT above 30th anniversary is mainly for the fact that MJ was a bit more in shape in 1997, and in 2001, he was slightly outta shape, but he had good moments vocally. What do y'all think of my list, haha.

In 2001 he was out of shape xD.

If you hear his vocals on the second night on the ad-libs in The Way You Make Me Feel or Billie Jean you can hear he was out of breath.

In the HWT this not happened, but in the Royal Concert this happen in songs like Billie Jean.


I wonder how could be his perfomance on TII.

I think he needs put in shape, at the begining of TII rehearsals he was pretty good, but due to the propofol doses his health deteriorate so fast.

 

[Juncanf]

I think that the main reasons Michael would remove songs from the set (I'm assuming, don't take my word for it) would be that he was tired, and didn't want to risk damaging his voice more, or not being able to keep performing at that level. Many forget that Michael turned 34 in 1992, already in his mid 30's doing arguably the most intense tour is demanding (again, just assuming).

One thing I think people forget is that, even though his microphone was off, he was still singing; we just couldn't hear it. Take for example the snippet from Munich 97 'in BOTDF where he hear his live vocals, he was singing, but he sounds hella fatigued. Michael I'd say hit his peak performance ability as an adult in 1988/89, don't get me wrong he was still always performing at that level going forward, but he paced himself. In 1993, you can notice that the beginning of Jam feels less "hype" than the 92 'leg, because, he was 35 years old, he can't use up all of his energy immediately. He does a lot less of full dancing throughout the song (save for the dance break) than compared to the 92 'leg. He began picking and choosing. Scream for example, you notice that his particularly difficult moves are spaced out in that song. You make a good point that he does a lot more walking than dancing sometimes in his songs like Scream, Billie Jean. Thats my theory on that.

Another thing worth considering is pacing. Maybe the pacing wasn't to his liking. IDK, haha Basically my main points are: He got older and couldn't keep up the same energy for 2 1/2 hours, and the pacing. Again, thats just my theory haha.

Use google translator, please.